Article From NM

Chief 34's picture
"I'm only as smart as I lead you to believe ... Unless you don't follow, then I'm just crazy. ;)"

Location: Rome New York, USA

Website: [Link]

Just a news article that I though I'd share.

Santa Fe Reporter

It is what it is, take from it what you will.

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Joltmar's picture
"I am a lolipop!"

Location: Somewhere over the rainbow in a land far far away

Very well put together than what I seen in my past

Exkhaniber's picture

Actually I think that article was quite good. It seemed like they were honestly trying to get an objective opinion there, and neither smearing for ratings nor pandering and sugar-coating to make the subjects more agreeable to share.

And the people they interviewed seemed pretty cool too. I'd like to meet them.

-There is no truth

Unclekage's picture
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You must not have read the same article I did.

Chief 34's picture
"I'm only as smart as I lead you to believe ... Unless you don't follow, then I'm just crazy. ;)"

Location: Rome New York, USA

Website: [Link]

I didn't say it was a bad article, I just wasn't sure of the reaction...

Exkhaniber wrote:
It seemed like they were honestly trying to get an objective opinion there...

I agree with you on that.

Giza's picture
"100% usynlig - som en ninja!"

Location: Ardmore, PA

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Actually, the lack of diligence and fact checking on the part of that reporter was rather astonishing.

There's a ton of discussion on it in the furrymedia community over on LiveJournal.

 
--
My LiveJournal - My Website

NallTWD's picture
Location: Boston, MA

Website: [Link]

(Welp. I'm going to use their own creation against them. You'll see why in my article on these "maga-papers".)

I think there were a few good points in here, but the rest of the article really kills the good. If you hack out 80% of this article and keep only the good paragraphs, you might have something. The hilarious thing is, there's more to this than meets they eye.

There are a lot of upcoming-city local pop/college publishers (Boston's got the Weekly Dig for example) that love to be on the "pulsing vein of culture itself" and produce weekly papers with soft covers, creating this new generation of "maga-papers" (MP's). As much as I love the Dig and the style of "f**k traditional journalism!" journalism at times, it really is more about 30-somethings trying to stay hip with the college crowd while simultaneously alienating their readers. They'll do it in tiny chunks so that not everyone's insulted all the time, mind you. After all, their target audience are your jaw-slacking late high school/college types whose pseudo-savvy with words and rebellious ideals keep 4chan running.

What's funny is, these MP's really create a niche in culture unto itself, where knowing a little about everything is better than knowing a lot about something. Backed by a constant stream of anger towards how things work and the angst of the early 20's and a love for city culture like trendy places to eat, local concerts and microbreweries, their reader base really carves out a notch of their own. At times, it's almost like a casual reader belongs with the crowd. Their comics and local flavor/attitude help establish someone but after an issue or two it becomes readily apparent that: No, you're not as cool as these folks; no, you're not as angry and cutting-edge as they are and above all; no, a trained monkey with a pack of basics, a JD hangover from the breakup a week ago and a life losing meaning due to 'the system' can't make a publication better than them.

Furries are just a scapegoat in the long run. In the end, they'll pick on a bunch of specialist groups and focus on their negative aspects, using them as an overtone for a "positive" article. Feeling negatively about something in a positive light makes it ok, you see. Progressive social groups whether they be charities or fetish folk who come out in public to make a contribution to society, will be targeted all the same due tot he fact that their readers are most likely not a part of them. In fact, it's hard to imagine your average reader of the MP's that's a die-hard about it does, much of anything other than pub crawl and hit up the internet hate machine when they get home at night.

Oh wait, I'm spinning a positive group of social progressives in a negative light, aren't I? Well, you must admit that these publications really are necessary to making competent members of society. Without that initial spark, where's the energy to get these kids on the train to being a better person? Anger and surface understanding is an easy path, but does allow for a lot of people to alter their perception and get out there to do something worthwhile. Who knows? Maybe that next article about the plight of southern Mexico's guerrilla war or the plight of moderate Muslims living in Europe might actually get someone to get active.

Damn. See, there I go. Taking a point, spinning it negatively, turning it around and made you forget my original point, didn't I? That's how easy it is. Ten minutes and a half-smirk about how clever I'm being. Trust me folks, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Don't get angry about how wrong they are or how little fact-checking they did, instead, laugh at them for needing to open up Pandora's Box to get attention to begin with. We know furries are a terrific group and sure, there's some sexual deviance from the norm. In the end, we're different on the outside and inside in a lot of cases, and it's easy to point us out.

Stay the course. We're still awesome.

~Tyler Barg

iSKUNK's picture
Location: Cambridge, MA

"Grain of salt" indeed... either he got trolled and isn't willing to admit to it, or he left it in as the flame fodder it clearly is. Nice how he never owns up to the last line and the decidedly negative impression it leaves, too.

One could imagine how much better an interview with Kage would have gone, but this makes me wonder---we don't really have many knowledgeable, media-savvy representatives of the fandom out there, do we?

Ed complains that every time the media comes out to interview Furries, some pervert will go right for the camera and talk about screwing dogs.

Or 400-pound men abusing the elevators at furry cons.

-- 
iSKUNK!

Lascivus_Lutra's picture
Location: Amherst, Ohio

I honestly think the author did a poor job. My understanding of journalism is writing consisting of facts and occurrences with little attempt to interpret. This does not mean the author should not check the facts. It does not take a calculator to determine Mr Hedgepath was not born in the 70's and was "theorizing," also tales of hallway shenanigans from 2001 would put him at a very young age. Without supporting evidence those tales should have been excluded and anything else he claimed should have been looked at with great scrutiny.

Furries are all about anthropomorphics, anything else is something else.

PIRATE

Member: Stuck In The Elevator Club

GreyFoxFanatic's picture
"Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."

Location: Kansas, USA

Blog: [Link]

Not bad, not bad. I actually kinda like this one--mostly because they talk to multiple furries around the area, instead of just one.

Unclekage's picture
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And yet, they manage to slip some mention of sex and perversion into every other paragraph.

BlackJack's picture
Location: NYC

Let me check the count. I'd bet it's more than "every other" and would be more than 1/2 the paragraphs.

Paragraphs 1 & 2 (I count the 2 sentences as paragraph 2), no mention.

Paragraph 3:
"Sexuality certainly plays a part—" and nearly 1/2 the paragraph is about sex.

Paragraph 4:
"Furries are even touchier about the 2001 Vanity Fair feature," and most of the paragraph is about sex.

Paragraph 5:
"Furries indulge their needs to touch and be touched without shame.
"it’s easy to believe they are the 21st century’s libertines."

Paragraph 6: no sex.

Paragraph 7: "For Furries, it’s a fandom, a hobby and a lifestyle, not a fetish."
This paragraph contradicts the other paragraphs so far,
but isn't about sex.

Paragraph 8-20 are all about the bear fursuiter, and are NOT about sex.
Not bad for 12 paragraphs.

(Subject change starting Paragraph 21...)

Paragraph 21-22, not about sex. We make up for that with 22.

Paragraph 22: " His identification with the Furry community could be a combination of factors:"
"that his sexuality is always in flux. He’s settled on the term “trisexual,” which is kind of like a sexual agnostic. He’s willing to try anything once."
Therefore, furry identification is connected to sex.

Paragraph 23-32, not about sex, about radio and so on.
Not bad-if the rest of the article conformed.

Paragraph 33: "The condition hasn’t stopped him from finding a mate,"
which comes in out of nowhere to open the paragraph.

Paragraph 34-35, not about sex.

Paragraph 36, we switch subjects again, now focusing entirely on sex.
Paragraph 36 begins with a non-furry who's never interacted significantly with the
furry community, who has no degrees in any academic pursuit, but bills herself as
a sex expert, and is consulted both in the Vanity Fair article and here to cement
the sex-furry connection in people's minds, as if she's qualified to speak on the
subject.
Special irony is that the article includes the words
"admits she’s guilty of over-emphasizing the sexual side of Furry fandom"
and the article does it AGAIN while saying so.

36-42 are entirely about sex.
Paragraph 43 sneaks in:
"Although untrained, Gates considers herself almost a social anthropologist,"

Although untrained, I'm diagnosing her as a twit.

43-55 actually don't get into sex, partially because Dr Gerbasi, who IS a licensed
professional, is quoted here.

Paragraph 56 is when the other guy comes in, where he claims Dr G's making the
community sound too clean.
Paragraph 57 is when he said the Vanity Fair article was the furries' fault.
I'd say both were to draw the connections as well, and I'd count them towards the total.
Paragraph 58-59 move in that direction as well. I'd count 59 as pushing that "agenda."

Paragraph 60:"“In 2001-2002, people were yiffing in the hallways, having orgy rooms everywhere and over 80 percent of the artwork was dirty,”
the paragraph specifies furry=sex maniac.

Paragraph 61:"back in the 1970s organizers were disappointed at the convention turnout, and started selling it as an alternative lifestyle to attract gays, sado-masochists and swingers to fill out their numbers."
Interesting comment, considering that furries first had ANY fur convention of ANY
size in 1987. http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/History
(How hard was it to find that? Less than 1 minute if you know about Wikifur.
I typed in "history" in the searchbar and that was the article that came up.)

Paragraph 62:"“Once they realize they’re accepted by Furries, they start crying more and more for that acceptance and getting yiffy all the time.”

Paragraph 63. no sex.
Paragraph 64 is about bestiality. He implies anywhere up to 70% of furries would engage
in that activity.

Paragraph 65:"“[Furries] are into it, but it’s just to what degree,” he says, matter-of-factly. “When it comes to bestiality, it’s still a major hush-hush, because it’s illegal. I’ll tell you many, many more Furs are into that stuff than what they’re willing to admit. They’ll tell when they get to know you.”

So, the fact that all of us have said "we're not into this" isn't us telling the
truth, it's us HIDING the truth.

Paragraph 66 says that Paragraph 65 may not apply to the NM guys in the article.
Which pretty much contradicts what they just said.

The last section is back to NM,
where we see the NM "exceptions" getting ready to have sex.
At least, that's what we're being led to believe, this is the prologue for an orgy.

"As the car pulls away, he considers the question of what might happen next back at Fur Central.
He answers: “I don’t think you want to know.”"

I stopped counting, but then, I've had enough.

It seems roughly 50% of the article, and the 50% that it is, is pretty consistent
in portraying an image of "sex and perversion".

BlackJack's picture
Location: NYC

Uncle Kage,
It seems some "journalists" are intent to engage in distorted "articles" that distort
the truth and pretend to do otherwise.

It seems we have to get their attention.

Is there some effective way to do that?

I know involving lawyers ALWAYS gets someone's attention, but that seems futile here.
Can we take some OTHER action?
If we do something every time someone produces another perversion of the truth like that,
the next time someone's looking for another whipping boy,
they'll look outside the furry community to do it.

Giza's picture
"100% usynlig - som en ninja!"

Location: Ardmore, PA

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Blog: [Link]

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Is there not an ethics board of some sort that handles complaints about journalists? Especially in a case like this, where it seems as though the author of that article was negligent.

 
--
My LiveJournal - My Website

Iron Wolf's picture
"Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day. Light a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life."

Location: Pottstown, Pennsylvania, United States

Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]

Heh, articles like these are pretty much the reason why the US Army will never know about my furry side.

naldru's picture
"I fear that financial problems are preventing me from attending this year. Maybe next year."

Location: Philadelphia, PA (USA)

According to my father, the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) conventions were far worse than anything I've ever heard rumored about furries. Not to mention the problems with the Tailhook scandal among the Navy pilots.

I think that the big problem is that furries aren't viewed as part of mainstream society. Of course, after looking at mainstream society, that may not be a bad thing. There have always been strange stories about people who were different. Women who lived by themselves far from the city were sometimes called witches by others. Going back a few hundred years, the Catholics, Anglicans, Congregationalists (Puritans), and Lutherans really had nasty myths that they spread about each other. Now that I think about it, various religious and ethnic groups have hundreds of weird myths about those who arn't like them.

For whatever reason, people find it reasonable to spread rumors and stories about furries while they wouldn't feel right passing the same stories about other racial and religious groups. Of course, over the past few years, I have heard a lot of ridiculous comments about the French.

FennecusKitsune's picture
Location: Brown University (school) & LI, NY (home)

Website: [Link]

After only skimming the article, and reading bits and pieces of it, I believe that I can pretty easily conclude that this article is far from objective. Objective articles provide facts while not giving any definite spin one way or another. It can be rather difficult to write something objective without a good amount of effort, but this article only seems to represent the viewpoints of only a few people, including the writer's own viewpoint, which all together makes an article far from objective, even if there is flip flopping, and contradictory viewpoints observed.

Articles and media that give the furry fandom this type of a spin, which attempts to tie it so closely to sexuality, and other more extreme examples of people within the fandom, give a bad name to us furries. They especially make being a younger fur, a hell of a lot more difficult. When adults or parents see articles like this, and then start believing that their children are getting mixed up in some sort of sexual deviancy, times get rough for those children, and it shouldn't have to be that way.

It's all stupid really when you think about it. Why do you think an editorial article like this exists anyway? It's because it's an article about something that people don't really know much about, and that sells. When people are given something that is different than what they know, and when it is presented in a format like this, where it's pretty easy to be spun, they eat it up! That's what many forms of journalism do to attract readers, and then get money. If it was a boring article about how some people get together for no apparent reason except to have fun, and that they enjoy viewing and creating art, among other things, then it would be a boring article. Statistics are interesting, even if people have no idea what the numbers could possibly mean, of if they're even realistic in measure. Plus, it's pretty rare to see sample spaces in these types of statistical arguments. Faking, or skewing research can greatly improve readership if it were to make an article more interesting.

Then again, any article or media about the furry fandom is practically set up for a situation like this. That's because the fandom is a fringe element of society, and is at most, a curiosity to people who know nothing or little about it. I wish it weren't that way, but hey, it's a fairly young fandom, and it's generally unknown, not like trekkies, or anime conventions which get a bit more neutral publicity these days it seems since they have been more pervasive, or at least have been generally accepted more over time.

I don't really know what I'm getting at with this, and I apologize for the rant, but I do know that this article is an unfair representation, of a much more generalized group than this article claims to be about.

Unclekage's picture
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The problem here is not the media. It's US. It's the people who talk to reporters without having the faintest idea what they are getting in to.

Reporters will zero in on the tiniest words no matter how much you try to de-emphasize them. Imagine I were to say to a reporter, "While some people believe that 80% of furries are sexual deviants, the truth is that we comprise a nearly perfect cross section of American culture. Sure, we have those that we prefer not to invite over for tea -- every group has its fringe elements. Rather than losers who never come out of their parents' basements, we are a rich collection of technology experts, writers, artists, lawyers, police officers, college students, scientists, firefighters, secretaries -- you name it. There are no boundaries in Furry fandom. Everyone and anyone can be a furry. We just have to dispel the myth that cartoon animals are just for kids. Look at the original cartoons from the 1930s and 1940s. Those are certainly not for kids. They were witty and timeless pieces of socio-political satire."

Here is what the reporter hears:

"Blah blah blah blah 80% of furries are sexual deviants blah blah blah losers who never come out of their parents' basements blah blah no boundaries blah blah blah blah not for kids blah."

If you are not trained in talking to the media, for God's sake, please don't attempt to represent the fandom. And if you feel you must, don't, as Rigel has often reminded me, try to define us by what we are not. Take, for example, this paragraph about bikers. What impression does it leave you about this group of people? How will you react the next time you see one?

"Not all bikers are drug addicts, and a very small percentage of them have criminal records. While they like to portray a tough image, bikers rarely engage in gang brawls, and the bars they hang out in aren't the sleazy, violent pits of hell that are portrayed by Hollywood. The media, sadly, tends to portray only those bikers who are arrested for murder or gun-running or heroine smuggling."

BlackJack's picture
Location: NYC

Even if you're trained in talking to the media, there's no guarantee that will help. I saw a television item on the vampire subculture. I knew everyone they got a sound-byte from. It was all about people who dress up, listen to interesting music in clubs, and some of them wear fangs. Most of them are normal folk when they're not in clubs, a few make a lifestyle of their hobby. (Sounds familiar?)

I saw the story AFTER it aired. The post-production sound-bytes of each and every person included that they don't drink blood. Pretty clear they don't drink blood, right? Especially after you have 3-4 people in a row say that nobody DOES, right?

Wrong.

The "news" team didn't like that, so they decided to change the story. They added a sound-byte from someone who works as a store-clerk where the clothing is sold. This person has never attended ANY of their events, and-I checked- the people in the community never saw her around-including the DOORMEN at the clubs. Her involvement began and ended at handing out a receipt. Hardly someone worth asking any questions, right? Hardly worth adding to the story, right? Then, why did they do it?

They let her ramble for about 20-30 seconds, then, as soon as she said the words "drink blood", they ended her sound-byte, and ended the story.
Seems they had finally gotten what they wanted.

Wait-it gets better.

Right after that, there was the sequence where they said "For more information on this story, go to our website..."
The anchor, apparently, improvised while reading this.
"For more information on vampires and drinking blood"
There was a giggle, as if the other anchor wasn't expecting that line.

However, what was their thrust for the story?
All the knowledgeable people who were spoken to did a GOOD JOB. And ALL of them said-possibly several times- that they don't drink blood.

The "news" program didn't let it go with that, they MANUFACTURED information when they were unable to find what they wanted.

A discussion of their community after this aired included someone having a complaint filed with the FCC's file for that (local) channel. That's for television, I don't know how to file a complaint for an item in print.

Alondro's picture
"Lions are lazy, very lazy. However, never tell one that to its face, lest you be sliced like bacon."

Location: NJ

Meh, as I've said before, we'd need a powerful Washington lobby group on our side.

Look at Scientology for a perfect example of how that works. Everyone in their right mind knows it's a brain-washing cult based on the most absurd 'backstory' ever contrived and is out to do nothing but make its leaders rich and powerful.

But they have lots of lawyers and aren't afraid to use them, so very few people have the guts to confront them. So, what we need is a huge team of evil lawyers to do our bidding and sue endlessly. It's so simple...

... then we form the cult and get rich. I get to be The Leader. >:}

Joltmar's picture
"I am a lolipop!"

Location: Somewhere over the rainbow in a land far far away

Actually Kage would be the leader... sorry XD I'd only follow him in a cult =3 ..

Unclekage's picture
Website: [Link]
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Just send me all your possessions and get back to the farm.

purpurnerhund's picture
Location: New England

I read that whole artical. Honestly I didn't think it was as bad as some ... though... they still always manage to make us sound childish and weird... o_o

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