More terrifically uninformed press
Posted by NallTWD on Mon, 2007-11-12 13:12
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Location: Boston, MA
Website: [Link] |
http://www.wmctv.com/global/story.asp?s=7337685 I mean wow. What ever happened to reporters doing their homework and actually doing research? God forbid they'd spend more than ten minutes walking around a room with a camera, talking to the oddest guy there and leaving. It's not even about the stereotypes anymore, nor about the 'hate' out there. Come on folks, this is all about local and national media slipping through on a 'D' grade. |

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Location: Youngstown, OH
I'll admit they could have probably put some of that a bit more delicately but I don't see them skewing the facts, at least not to the degree that the Vanity Fair article did, or even that NM article.
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permalinkSome people need to not talk to the meadia though as well. All you have to say is that one slip of the truth that's somewaht unsavorey and that's all they will use... the bad things that sell their media scoop.
And its dumb, but its been true even since the school days... it only takes one to ruin it for everyone else. One bad apple spoils the barrel...
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permalinkIt's not even that. This article didn't have any weirdos gunning for the microphone; all the quotes are safe territory. It's how the story is framed, what it chooses to focus on. You can tell pretty clearly that the emphasis on sex was not the result of anything observed at the con. The writer's own preconceived notions are the basis of this article---the quotes and observations are just fluff.
Someone at WMC-TV must have had a scruple or two, however, given how they linked to the furrymedia discussion of the article. (Apparently, this reporting is the result of MFM trying a "sunshine" approach...)
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iSKUNK!
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permalinkLocation: detroit, michigan
wow first question what are power animals?. how come you never hear about the code of conduct at comic conventions how would that look? "It's ok to hug spider-man but anything involving his webs must be taken to a room. I don't see why people can't just see furs as another culture I like being able to goof around in a fursuit because I'm to self-councious out of it. But take it from someone who saw the evil of the media first hand. They don't care about people just ratings that goe's for katie couric double.
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permalinkI believe power animals are strong creates in nature. ie tigers, wolves, bears.... the bigger scarier things in the big bad woods. If you think of native tribes and the powerful animals spirits for help in strength and battle I'm sure wolves and bears conjure up that image. That's what they mean...
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permalinkWith the press people being the way that they are, really the only thing you CAN do, short of storming their building and force feeding them the truth, is to just ignore them and hope that kharma takes a toll on their tails. People of that nature are just plain close-minded who are afraid of opening a book or doing research. I hear that reading words scares them. That's mostly the reason I don't bring up my love of wolves to people I don't know. Good chance of them going by bad press instead of doing research. Same rule applies.
All we can do is shake our heads at them and ignore them.
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permalinkLocation: Ardmore, PA
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As someone else pointed out in another thread, ignoring it and hoping it will go away is not an effective measure. A tragic example of this is what happened in the media coverage of Fatty Arbuckle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_Arbuckle
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My LiveJournal - My Website - My MySpace
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permalinkAlways have a knack for knowing how to make someone rethink about posting something on here, huh, giza?
Makes me kind of wish I hadn't said anything in the first place.
Well, what I was trying to get at was that I'd rather focus on the fun of this niche instead of bad publicity. There's always going to be bad publicity. You know how hard it is sometimes to get close-minded individuals to actually listen and learn? Birds of a feather flock together, and most people take sides only because they don't know the truth and would rather go on their own assumptions. We could have a huge public gathering or press show explaining how the furry fandom works, and while some people will listen, you're still going to get people with hate in their hearts who'll scorn it. I'd like for people to listen, but a lot of times, they just plain don't want to.
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permalinkLocation: Ardmore, PA
Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]
Nah, I'm just good at pulling stuff from other threads.
Seriously, I do not believe the public's perception of us will be changed by a single press conference, or a single article. What I think we really need more of is a consistent and organized outreach and education effort aimed at members of the general public. In other words, similar to what WikiFur is trying to do.
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permalinkWhen that news station up in Philly did that interview at AC '07, I thought that turned out well. Tho, if I remember correctly, it was a small snippet, not really siding with one or the other. But, I like to think that it was good publicity. But, maybe I'm just being naive.
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permalinkBlog: [Link]
er, AC'07 was in Pittsburgh!
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permalinkD'oh! I thought Pittsburgh, but why in the world did I put down Philly? I'll have to study this one quick. I'd ask you, but you're probably busy figuring out ways to rule the world with your evil cockroaches. Cause they're evil. And, you're special.
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permalinkWebsite: [Link]
In all fairness, I've been doing these since '02 and I still let a Philly slip from time to time.
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permalinkLocation: Philadelphia, PA (USA)
I don't know if they are evil or not, but there is some research going on with robot cockroaches and attempts to use them to control the behavior of real cockroaches.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1684427,00.html?cnn=yes
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permalinkLocation: In a small little box in your small little mind.
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What an interesting article.
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permalinkLocation: Philadelphia area, PA
My sense is that that's at least partially so--they are spirits or archetypes in the shamanist tradition (i've never heard the modern practice linked to any particular tribe or nation) that people build deep spiritual connections with, in order to take on some of their more positive qualities.
Spirit animals and power animals (sometimes but not always the same) aren't always the big fierce things, though. I recall reading of smaller and less ferocious spirit animals, such as the turkey (representing self-sacrifice), the lizard (representing dream wisdom), the turtle (representing groundedness)...
Wikipedia listed this link that may help explain the concept.
Personally, i think it may be the way that some furries access that part of themselves, but it appears to take a more metaphoric, archetype-based approach than i've heard many furries leaning towards. I remember once seeking my own spirit animal in high school; it wasn't a dragon, and that doesn't change the fact that i am one. To me, it's just one more mark of this reporter's persistent ignorance that she equated furry culture with shamanism and does not seem to have asked if this was correct.
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permalinkLocation: NJ
The truth is, furry is far too varied to be lumped under anything more than a fondness for zooanthropomorphics. Out of the more than 200 furs I've had time to talk with, I know of only a handful that hold any sort of shamanistic or 'inner animal' beliefs, even when they RP or write about it. To them it's simply a useful plot device from time to time, as are the Egyptian gods, as are various mythical beasts and so-forth.
But, media needs to group us all as something out of the ordinary. So it's easiest and most attention-getting to go with the most out-of-the-ordinary classifications.
Though, being thought of as a group of shamans is alot better than being thought of as a group of pervs. I say go with the ancient religion thing.
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permalinkLocation: Philadelphia area, PA
To some extent, yes, furries as shamanic is probably easier for mundanes to digest than furries as transspecies or, worst of all (strictly from a PR perspective) furries as sexual deviants.
Still, i worry about issues of cultural appropriation with the spirit animal thing (i worry about everything, really). With the transspecies angle, at least we have some precedent set by the transgendered community, although they, admittedly, aren't much more widely accepted than we are. And while i don't want to be either one, i'd rather people think i'm way too kinky than have people think i don't have respect for the cultural and racial concerns of others.
Maybe my expectations are too high, particularly with the sound byte-happy conservative media that's so common these days, but i still really feel like it's not to much to ask that a reporter wait to pass judgment on us until they've made an honest attempt to learn about us.
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permalinkLocation: NJ
Well, firstly, most media is not conservative. If you think media is mainly conservative, I'd be very curious as to what you'd call liberal, or even 'balanced' for that matter. If there's any reason we're being targeted more often, I'd say a big factor is that they're still 'allowed' to go after us with bias. There are lots of other groups known for consistently very bizzarre behavior and beliefs.
Scientology ranks near the top, for instance. Many countries consider them (quite rightly) a brain-washing cult whose leaders seek only to maintain absolute control over their members and their members' bank accounts. But, they have a lobby in the US, they have a massive legal team and lots of money, and control of various politicians and influential people. Therefore only those who a. don't fear them and b. refuse to allow themselves to be bullied will really go after them.
I am quite certain if furry had that level of influence, the negativity would disappear very quickly except for the few who would go out of their way to be a public spectacle (aka, like Tom Cruise).
As for the other point, being way too kinky is not a good thing to be known for. That has no chance whatsoever of being respected. It may eventually tolerated or ignored, but never will a perception of being over-the-top sex-crazed ever be given respect.
If anything, shamanistic connection would garner quite a bit more respect as it has been around for as far back as human history has been recorded. It's the most ancient documented type of 'religion', per say, and has immense cultural significance in many belief systems even to this day. If anything, this would indicate that we'd tend to have MORE concern for racial and cultural concerns than otherwise, since so many cultures have connections to animal-like spirits and deities. We'd tend to be inclusionary to ideas than exclusionary. Even if we don't believe them personally, we'd analyze and discuss them for the aspects of common interest.
Of course I say that with respect to beliefs which do not support causing deliberate harm to others. There are, obviously, some things which cannot be accepted. Human sacrifice for instance, I think we can all agree, is not something that can or should be acceptable at all.
In the move to tolerance, it is important also to keep hold of some common sense and wisdom into how far we allow behavior to be expressed. I always like the line from South Park in the episode with the 'Museum of Tolerance': Tolerant, but not stupid. :3
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permalinkLocation: Philadelphia area, PA
I hear what you're saying about garnering respect through ties to ancient religious and cultural connections.
The difficulty i can see is that i'm not sure if it's entirely appropriate for us to claim those connections. From what i understand, the indiginous peoples of the US have been very divided about which parts of their culture they want to allow folks outside their tribes and nations to share, and to what extent. The fact that european immigrants took so much from those native peoples makes it just that much more of a sore topic, from what i can see, not to mention the ways in which white folks in this country seem to fetishize native culture, which still, oddly, denigrating it. I see this stuff as being very much something we should be careful of, in part because the furry community is (from what little i've seen) predominantly white.
Sweat lodges according to native north american traditions are a prime example of this--some feel that they are a good form of outreach, some feel that they're ok only if led by someone from within one of the tribes, and some feel that they should really be reserved for recognized members of a tribe.I feel that it's not my place to make this decision, or even to assume that if it's ok with one group, it's also ok with another. It's not my cultural background. And while i like the idea of cultures sharing their richness with each other, i recognize that it's emotionally a lot easier to share your culture with others if no one has ever tried to systematically strip your family of home, livelihood, and cultural identity.
All of this is just my perspective and my worries, of course. Since it's something that has come up of late among my religious community, it's closer than usual to the forefront of my mind at present.
As for the media itself...well, that's what reading stuff like Chomsky and Herman's Manufacturing Consent does to me. I've become quite cynical towards mainstream news media lately, most especially anything within the same media conglomerate as Fox. Just i just generally tend to be extremely leftist. But really, that's just me. *shrugs*
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permalinkLocation: NJ
Ah, but you're associating shamanism only with Native Americans! That sort of system exists in the distant past of almost every culture if you go back far enough. It is called different names and has ritualistic variations, but the core belief of involving evoking spirits of the earth and animals is almost identical in every case.
As for political matters, I prefer to take each situation as it arises and make my decision based on what will work best and fits with some basic moral precepts.
Of course, that has rather led me to side with the 'right' much more often than the 'left'. The case often is that the far left present solutions that simply don't work in the long run, and with a little honest analysis it's often very forseeable. And there's the 'peace at any price' philosophy that has been in place all the back before WWI. The reluctance to use force when it was needed to enforce treaties and prevent greater harm led to one mistake after another, and I think we all know what that mindset led to starting in 1939. War has its place. The difficulty lies in knowing when and where to fight, and to be sure that if you start something you actually have the means and methods to properly finish it.
And on the far right are simply religious nuts and its very easy to see where they've fallen off the deep end. The 'God hates fags' protesters are a shining example of how evil can twist even something which is supposed to be entirely about goodness to its own ends. It is wise to be wary and never cease to question. Even the most faithful have questioned their faith and searched earnestly for the answers.
Both of the extreme views are failures, as far as I can tell. Each side walls itself up with a set of beliefs that will not change no matter how much evidence is presented. For instance, the left are incredibly fond of socialism. But socialism in practice has failed completely. Socialism ignores the existance of a simple truth of human nature: humans are greedy. It leads to even less equality and more flagrant corruption than capitalism simply because to make everyone equal, a government must be in absolute control of everything to 'redistribute' resources. Inevitably, that government takes most of the goods for itself and those who can afford bribes. I would advise everyone to watch Venezuela for a perfect example of how this scenraio will unfold.
And on the right, religious beliefs become incredibly hard-line and legalized to such a degree that they cease to resemble the original religion. They end up creating violence and injustice that the founders preached against. Tenets can be introduced by corrupt religious leaders to serve their purposes and single words or phrases can be misinterpreted and used out of context either accidently or deliberately, and those errors mixed into the simple truths become accepted if the majority merely accept without studying for themselves. But eventually they are found out and become stumbling blocks which cause many to fall needlessly. Most religions have had this happen at some point, though some do eventually reverse course. One only has to look at the futile belief in an Earth-centered universe which was held so vehemently to understand the danger of this way of thinking.
In the end, it's a constant analysis of self and society, while knowing which lines not to cross no matter what. Becoming fixed in one mindset without willingness to adjust to individual circumstances is dangerous and allows one to be easily misled by those who will say just enough of what you want to hear to get them into power.
The clever ones who seek power for the sake of power never show their true face until they have what they want. They change their tone frequently to fit what the public mood is at the time, always attempting to stay one foot ahead and predict the next mood swing. They are the most dangerous of all, for they have no values and will do anything it takes to rise in the ranks.
Oh, I've gone off on a tangent again. Don't get me started thinking too much because I have trouble stopping! ;P
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permalinkLocation: Philadelphia area, PA
You're right, i am. My experience has been that when people talk about the religious background of spirit animals, particularly as regards the modern interpretations, they tend almost exclusively to reference practices from Native American cultures. It may be that those specific beliefs and practices of Native Americans are better documented than those of most other cultures, or that the practices of native american peoples seem more palatable to the average north american joe schmoe, or something else i haven't thought of; i really wouldn't know. But this seems to be the result. *shrugs and smiles*
I respect that. I won't get into too many details here--i'm not sure the anthrocon forum is the right place for an in-depth political discussion, and i get the sense that you and i have dramatically different conversational styles when it comes to political issues--but suffice it to say that i too try to judge each situation individually based on practical and moral/ethical concerns, and have come to some very different conclusions. And that's ok. I think the important part at our level is that we're honest with ourselves about our limits, but we're also still respectfully listening to each other and staying open to new revelation.
*chuckles*
"He said, 'The more i get to thinking, the less i tend to laugh.'
The boy's got brains, he just abstains."
--Paul Simon, 'Marion'
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permalinkBlog: [Link]
Actually it may be a matter that it is 'closer' to us in both geographic and temporal terms. While such customs were once commonplace in Europe, the passage of time has caused them to be all but forgotten and as the American Indian customs exist within our own neighborhood (speaking of Americans obviously) it's the one most readily cited. Other populations would relate the shamanistic customs of their own native non-European peoples.
And on the original point... I've lived on a reservation my entire life and from what I've seen, those who take offense at outsiders recognizing their tribe's cultures and values are often in the minority and are sometimes even ostracized for their 'the old ways must die with us' mentality and tendency to misrepresent their own culture. And speaking as a descendant of the Susquehannock I can say I would be overjoyed if something more than the tribe's name survived the death of the last recognized tribal members.
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permalinkLocation: detroit, michigan
at least not all the press is ill informed I liked this one
http://www.hartfordadvocate.com/article.cfm?aid=3873
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permalinkLocation: the squiggle in your eye
i think that no press should be allowed acess unless they have a valid reson (world record)if they dont they should be told to bugger off!
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permalinkWebsite: [Link]
It was a lot less bad than most articles, but paragraph one says otherwise, which is what 75% of people read and forget the rest of the article.
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permalinkjust wondering how many people here sent an email to the person who wrote the report? i did
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permalinkMy advice to those that are concerned is this...
We will always have the infamous 10% out there doing and saying embarrasing things. When they are the only ones publicly claiming to be furries, everyone will believe we all act similarly.
If we do not want others defining furry for us, we need to claim the title and tell others what furry is really about. Get out of the closet, be seen and be heard!
PIRATE
Member: Stuck In The Elevator Club
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permalinkLocation: Morgantown, PA
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very nicely said =3
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permalinkLocation: Europe,Great Britain, England, Borehamwood
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Entripid Figures- GenII Computing/Design/Go-Karting/Drifting/LIVING!
i know the simple thing they can do there research they could of least gone to wikipedia.com and looked there
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permalinkLocation: New Brighton, MN, USA
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Is it all about the ratings here... seriously? Are you (the news) telling people what they should hear, or what they want to hear? I'm confused.
Does the media play on the stereotypes of civilization just to gain network ratings, thus, more money? Because that's what I think this is about. It's not about informing people of anything important anymore, oh no, it's all about the money. Truth or lies, doesn't matter, just whatever makes you money.
And that's what it has been for a long time now, hasn't it?
Forgive my ranting here.
Edit: I just found out that the article within the link was removed! Wow...
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permalinkI heard the fur (D_L_Leonine) whose infant son was in part of the video complained to the station and it was removed soon afterwards. I am not sure if that was the reason or if it was coincidence. The post I read inferred they had received feedback from the station.
PIRATE
Member: Stuck In The Elevator Club
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