New FAQ for attendees under age 18

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Giza's picture
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Are you under the age of 18, but would still like to attend Anthrocon?

We now have a section in our FAQ which answers the most commonly asked questions, including how to obtain permission from your parents, Photo ID concerns, and hotel room concerns.

http://www.anthrocon.org/faq/minors

Enjoy!

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TehLeonTaz's picture
Location: Katy, TX, USA
Posts: 52

Thanks! This is really helpful for us younger ones :3

By the way, there's another thing I want to know that's not in the FAQ. If a minor registers for the Artist's Alley, and they have mature drawings made by themselves, can they show it publically or be commissioned to make one? Would it violate a law?

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Unclekage's picture
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No, they cannot, and yes, it would. It's an odd nuance of the law, but we must abide by it.

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charlieg's picture
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There were three implied questions. I believe Dr. Conway is saying:
1) No, they cannot show mature drawings.
2) Yes, they can accept commissions to do mature drawings.
3) No, it would not break a law to commission someone under age or for someone under age to accept such a commission.

Charlie (Wiating for Sam to give him a "Well, duh!)

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Xyloart's picture
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My interpretation was 'no, they cannot show or accept commissions' and 'yes, it would break the law'.

frankenshoe.com

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Unclekage's picture
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Actually, no, they cannot accept commissions to do mature drawings. This consitutes "contributing to the delinquency of a minor."

Let the lawyers argue it elsewhere. Anthrocon doesn't have time for the debate.

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charlieg's picture
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My apologies: I misinterpreted what Dr. Conway said originally. Always go by the official statements of Con Staff (Dr. Conway, Giza, etc.) as opposed to half-baked idiots like me.

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Beaviseno_WhiteShadow's picture
Location: US
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Can Minors wear fursuits Oo? And what is Fursuit ID, and where do you get them? :3

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Giza's picture
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Of course minors can wear fursuits.

Anthrocon does not offer any sort of special IDs for fursuits. Some dealers may offer them, however.

 
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BlackJack's picture
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Fursuiters wear THE SAME IDs the rest of us wear, and, AFAIK, are required to
display/wear them the same as everyone else. Those are the official convention badges.

Unofficial, artistic badges are drawn by dealers. Those can be worn in addition to
the official convention badge, but do not serve any official purpose.
(They're decoration.) You must display the official badge, period.

(I'm presuming you needed the longer answer. Giza presumed you already
were clear about the official badge, but I wasn't sure.)

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MOST AC ATTENDEES DO NOT WEAR A FURSUIT OR ANY FORM OF COSTUME.

Sgt Steve's picture
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I believe that Sabrina Stein (a.k.a. Skippy, DI, Jr.) was 11 when she got her fursuit. It was and is very cool.

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Gravitycrasher's picture
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Let's hope we can wear fursuits.

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月のカース冷夢のなかで

Giza's picture
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I'd like to point you to the previous responses in that thread.

 
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Unclekage's picture
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You are far from an idiot! And you are not half-baked. You are succulently browned throughout.

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charlieg's picture
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I knew I shouldn't have taken those tanning sessions in the microwave...

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Volknochi's picture
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He calls you Dr. Conway instead of Uncle Kage. Blasphemy! He cannot be considered as a furry! Eye-wink

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warwolf's picture
Location: detroit, michigan
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Careful. furs with more pull than us on this site don't all call him kage. I'm pretty sure I've heard him called Sam.

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Volknochi's picture
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Who're you saying to be careful? I was making a joke. Hence the Winky Face. C'mon now. This is a place for love and fun. Eye-wink

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charlieg's picture
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A) It's difficult to think of someone younger than yourself as 'Uncle'.

B) When you've misinterpreted the con rules to such an extent that the chairman himself must step in and correct you, a little humility is in order. Referring to him as 'Dr. Conway' under those circumstances represents such a submission ritual.

I do understand you were making a joke. It's just that the rules of the con are too important to screw up their meaning. As Uncle Kage/Dr. Conway/Sam said, in this case it's the laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania that apply. The con rules must be subordinate to that.

I am old enough to know the 'secret' behind all of the con rules. They are all in place because, at one time, there wasn't a rule against it. I was present at Disclave 1980 which was raided by the local SWAT team because idiots with replica M-16's were wandering all over the area playing Assassin. This caused the "no weapons/nothing that looks like a weapon/Con Security decides whether it's a weapon" rules to be put in place.

All of the rules are in place for the same reason: you can never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

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Unclekage's picture
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As Charlie said, he has seen first-hand that the cons have rules for the same reason that irons have labels on them that say, "do not iron clothes while wearing them." Sometime, somewhere, some idiot has actually done it.

And he calls me Dr. Conway because Charlie has known me since before I was Uncle Kage!

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Volknochi's picture
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Was this before or after the dawn of man and the creation of the wheel? I'm still wondering why my square wheel won't work. It makes perfect sense when you're parked on a hill.

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charlieg's picture
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Since I cannot reasonably be classified as human, it was obviously before the dawn of man. The first wheels were ovals: they caused motion sickness.

A joke that's almost that old: You need to use triangular wheels. One less bump. Evil

Charlie (who was one of the people who 'talked' Kage into going to the Adams Mark. He was already thinking about it and I said, "Ask. The worst they can say is no.")

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TehLeonTaz's picture
Location: Katy, TX, USA
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That makes more sense, but what if they are mature drawing that no one commissioned? What if they were deliberately made by the minor? No one asked him to draw them, so basically, no one's corrupting him. What would that count as?

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Skippy DI's picture
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As no one should be opening displaying mature materials on their tables, no one should know the underage person is drawing mature material. If said underage artist is discovered to be trafficing in such drawings, they will probably end up having a conversation with the concom.

-----------------------------------------------
David M Stein, DI

"Not Unlike the Toaster, I Control the Darkness"
-- Abby Normal, "You Suck"

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David M Stein, DI

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Sgt Steve's picture
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Seconded. Under-age person + mature art = no. Kage already said that pretty clearly above.

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BlackJack's picture
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Don't forget that AnthroCon has a "no rules-lawyering" stance.
Taking the literal wording of a rule, then mutilating its spirit while conforming
to the precise letter, is an easy way to get Uncle Kage to remember your name,
and not in a nice way.

Minors and mature art should not meet at AnthroCon, at all.
Anything beginning with "But what if" doesn't change that.
It causes potential problems with the law, and that's a huge no-no
with AC AND the Dorsai. You will NOT impress them by figuring out an
innovative new way to break the law and retain the letter of the AC rules.

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Duncan da Husky's picture
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Quote:
Taking the literal wording of a rule, then mutilating its spirit while conforming
to the precise letter, is an easy way to get Uncle Kage to remember your name,
and not in a nice way.

Likewise, it's a good way to get me to remember their name, and bar them from sitting in the Artists Alley for good.

---
Tom Brady/Duncan da Husky
Artists Alley and Con Store Manager
For fastest replies to questions about Artists Alley, e-mail me at

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desteredra's picture
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Quote:
You will NOT impress them by figuring out an
innovative new way to break the law and retain the letter of the AC rules.

Abso-ducking-lutely.

Especially since any adjustment for rules lawyering means the staff and securityfolks would have to do a fun little dance to uphold rules that don't make sense anymore.

Example: If, as he said, an underage person created and offered mature art, then realistically, he could only sell it to the extent that he could keep from looking at it, even when hanging it up. I don't think those laws about underage viewing of pornography have any "except when the underage person is the artist/creator" proviso, so as soon as a minor created the artwork, we'd have to hide it and not let him/her see it at all. If it didn't sell, i don't know how we'd manage to get it back to the artist. If it did sell, are we contributing to the delinquency of a minor if we let one profit off of spooge, even if he would have created that art anyway?

Not to mention, if we adjust a rule like this in any way, how safe are our furry parents going to feel bringing their kids?

Basically, it's just seven kinds of mess, and it's by far easiest for the AC security and staff if they can honestly say that they have no knowledge of minors getting access to spooge during AC. And while i have mixed feelings about those pornography laws, i'm sincerely glad that we're not trying to tangle with them.

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TehLeonTaz's picture
Location: Katy, TX, USA
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I'm sorry, I didn't mean to get anyone angry Sad

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iSKUNK's picture
Location: Cambridge, MA
"A hollow voice says 'plugh.'"
Posts: 354

Don't worry too much about it. This is a sensitive issue, legal issue and sore point for the con staff---all in one---so responses will tend to be on the blunt side.

I'm of a similar mind to Desteredra on the legal issue of minors and sexually explicit material, and I doubt anyone here will question what you do in and of itself. The inflexibility of the prohibition is more a "keep Kage out of jail" thing than a "you shouldn't be drawing those awful pictures, you naughty boy" thing Eye-wink

-- 
iSKUNK!

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NallTWD's picture
Location: Milwaukee, WI
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For clarity: Minors at AC cannot draw (Commission, sketch or gift), purchase, view or participate in any step of mature artwork whatsoever.

That is all.

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Skippy DI's picture
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And, one last note: Given the edict from Kage, Security will stop anyone showing blatantly sexual material in the hotel or the convention center. Even those dealers who are legally selling adult material must keep them reasonably under wraps and control who sees them. If they do not comply, they may be ejected from the convention or have their adult material taken to the principal's office till after school. A minor caught the in the same position will probably be in a greater danger of having their membership yanked.

That so you know it's not just you.

-----------------------------------------------
David M Stein, DI

"Not Unlike the Toaster, I Control the Darkness"
-- Abby Normal, "You Suck"

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David M Stein, DI

"Not Unlike the Toaster, I Control the Darkness"
-- Abby Normal, "You Suck"

Hinie's picture
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Posts: 24

Dude, im so excited ^_^ I already have everything squared away and am ready to have the best time of my life at the upcoming anthrocon!

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Verdauga's picture
Location: Montana, USA
Posts: 159

When you get the form up, please state which notarization is needed. There is nothing worse for a notary then getting a notary request and the person doing it having no idea what they are supposed to get. Except maybe getting shot.....maybe.

The only two types that would be used in this case would be Acknowledgment or Jurat.

Tiger kitty hoping to make it to AC, at your service,
Verdauga, Notary in CA

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A Tiger

NallTWD's picture
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 374

Oh man... Giza, Kage, you guys seriously rock dealing with the veritable daycare of the kids flocking towards us.

Hopefully the under 18 FAQ will clean up a ton of board spam dealing with the same issues over and over again. I'd assume this one's gonna be frontpaged and stickied with giant neon lights to make sure no one misses it?

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Volknochi's picture
Posts: 386

Well, you got to at least admire their patience in dealing with these matters, even when all seem to be covered perfectly in the FAQs. And, you might want to suggest getting flagment, flares, and safety triagles to direct all to the FAQs. Eye-wink

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NallTWD's picture
Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Oh their patience is beyond me with the youngsters and first-timers. Or both.
What ever happened to wanting some questions to be answered through experience anyway? XD

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TehLeonTaz's picture
Location: Katy, TX, USA
Posts: 52

You know what, I'm gonna be honest here. Since this is a free country and all, I can say what I want to say so here I go:

I understand the policies regarding mature conetent and minors, but I don't think it's fair that we shouldn't be able to draw that stuff. I mean, I'm not even selling it! What is it breaking? No one's "corrupting" me to do so.

For example if I were to draw something yiffy, why should I not be able to draw it? Just because I'm a minor doesn't mean that I have any restrictions on my right to freedom of speech and expression. I should be able to make mature content despite that I myself am a minor. And that's my responsibility, not the government's.

Anyone willing to discuss this personally can talk to me through MSN

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Volknochi's picture
Posts: 386

While everyone likes to pull the 1st Amendment Right, you also need to realize that there are laws. Also, the DLCC and Westin are private business properties and they have their own set of laws/rules. Everyone must abide by them.

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iSKUNK's picture
Location: Cambridge, MA
"A hollow voice says 'plugh.'"
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The U.S. has a lot of laws that fall short of what can be called ideal, or that are just flat-out crap altogether. This goes tenfold for anything having to do with sex. Heck, it wasn't until 2003 that the Supreme Court overturned laws (still in force at the time in Texas) that banned gay sex, performed in private, between consenting adults.

And it goes twentyfold for anything having to do with sex and kids. You think not being allowed to draw yiffy pics is bad? The same political forces that gave us those laws have shut out comprehensive sexual education from many school districts---an approach that has been shown to reduce teen pregnancy and transmission of AIDS and other STIs---in favor of abstinence-only curricula. People would rather have you get AIDS than entrust you with meaningful knowledge about protecting yourself during sex.

I agree, the law is a putz here. But it's just the tip of a very large, ugly, and harmful iceberg. The best you can do is not let it make you doubt what you are doing---just because the law says so doesn't mean it's wrong---and keep right on doing it, in a way that doesn't get you or others in trouble.

And then, when you turn 18, you'll be free of all this silliness---and I'll be able to check out your mature portfolio, and see just how much of a head start you've had with the yiffy art Eye-wink

-- 
iSKUNK!

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TehLeonTaz's picture
Location: Katy, TX, USA
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I really like the approach you used there. And I agree with you. Thanks a lot, it really helped me clear a lot of my doubts :3

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Unclekage's picture
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Eurofurence had the same conundrum with the young artist Selderaya. She is brilliant and her work is highly prized...except at the time of her first convention she was only 14. Now, she is from the Netherlands, where the law is much more lax about such things, but she found herself in Germany, where the laws are similar to the laws here.

The result? Selderaya could enter her art in the art show, but was not legally permitted to go into the art show to look at it.

Yes, laws are funny, but in the end, Anthrocon is required to abide by them whether we like them or not. That's because the people who enforce the law have guns, handcuffs, and big sticks to hit you with and we don't like that.

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Jesse's picture
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Quote:
Yes, laws are funny, but in the end, Anthrocon is required to abide by them whether we like them or not. That's because the people who enforce the law have guns, handcuffs, and big sticks to hit you with and we don't like that.

=P simply put..
___________________________________________________

Head, $600. Suit $1000. Going to Anthrocon, no, its not priceless.

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Head, $600. Suit $1000. Going to Anthrocon, no, its not priceless.

TehLeonTaz's picture
Location: Katy, TX, USA
Posts: 52

Another thing I want to know, not to rant, but I'm just curious? Why can't minors take the Furvey Survey given in the convention? I read it, but I found nothing that parents wouldn't want their to see, like details of sexual life, except for sexual orientation, which isn't much. I really don't see why it's restricted for adults.

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desteredra's picture
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Hard to say, really. My suspicion, however, is this:

The survey was being done by a psychologist (or maybe it was a psych student; i can't recall off the top of my head and i'm too lazy to go look it up). She was working on a paper studying aspects of furry culture, and was making comparisons between furries and college students. For that, i imagine that she was probably trying as much as possible to get two groups who were alike in every respect other than furriness (knowing that there are far more adult furries under 30 than over 30). So she limited it to furries over 18 so that she could get furries who were, most likely, in or very recently out of college.

That's just my guess.

As for the art stuff...

You're right, it's silly, and i don't like it either. This country can get awfully puritanical and obsessive about hiding sex away, even though it's something we want our kids to eventually engage in. Meanwhile violence, something we *never* want our kids to engage in if at all possible, is plastered all over everything. Speaking purely personally, I would love it if we could be completely open to any artist who wanted to show work of any type, and simply keep the yiffy stuff separate so that folks don't have to see it if they don't want to. But that's not what the law says we have to do.

I apologize if i sounded a bit gruff before; that wasn't my intention at all. I've just started working with the art show very recently, and trying to imagine how we could sell the original spooge of a minor who, according to federal law, we're not allowed to let him see...was making my head spin. Actually, it was kind of amusing, picturing petercat packing up a bunch of pieces and mailing them back to some teenager with "do not open this package until your 18th birthday" written all over the outside, or gizmo trying to help a teen hang his/her work while blindfolded. *grin*

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Giza's picture
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I don't know, but I do know the email address of the person conducting the study, so I asked her. Smiling

She can also be found on LiveJournal as drg_kcgerbasi

 
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Unclekage's picture
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The answer is more bureaucratic than sinister. A psychological study falls under the same broad umbrella as a medical study: "an investigation in which human subjects are used." That requires approval by an Institutional Review Board (IRB). One of the things that the IRB demands is that the subject of any medical study be capable of giving informed consent to take part in the study. A minor, legally, cannot give informed consent for such a thing.

It's silly, really, since they're asking questions, not putting experimental drugs into you. But it's the way science is done these days.

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Giza's picture
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To expand on Sam's answer, I heard back from Kathy, and this is what she had to say:

The reason for no minors has to do with federal guidelines about protection
for human participants in research. If you say you are going to have minors
participate the rules and restrictions become much more stringent and you
would have to have parental permission. It would be much more difficult to
get review board approval if we said we were going to allow minors.

It is so "bad" even minors like say 17 years old in a college freshman intro
psych class where there is a requirement to be in studies to pass the
course, even those kids are exempted from participating at some universities
(in others they get parent permission.)

So it's not that she's not interested in furries under the age of 18, but that there are just too many "hoops to jump through" to make it happen.

 
--
My LiveJournal - My Website - My MySpace

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TehLeonTaz's picture
Location: Katy, TX, USA
Posts: 52

Another government crap thing. Man, what's with all this "protection to minors" lies nowadays? It looks more like they're just trying to shield kids away from the world. And that's not good. But whatever, it's not like we can do anything about it :/

I wonder if 2 has ranted about these kind of things? It would be a really great subject to hear him talk about.

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Volknochi's picture
Posts: 386

While I'm sure you've heard this a lot, but I'm still going to say it. You'll understand when you're older. Trust me, things'll start to make more sense as you get older and you'll start getting the picture of why all the red tape from the government. You still won't agree with it, probably (most of us don't), but you'll understand why. Eye-wink

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iSKUNK's picture
Location: Cambridge, MA
"A hollow voice says 'plugh.'"
Posts: 354

There are good reasons for "protecting" minors from some of the responsibilities (and associated consequences) of adulthood. It's less about "interesting" stuff like sex, and more about things like being taken advantage of in the terms of a contract, or being treated differently by the criminal justice system because you still have a chance to turn yourself around and become a law-abiding adult.

After 18, you can make decisions that can really, truly screw up the rest of your life. It's an awesome responsibility, and it's really not something you want to have without fully grasping what it means, and having the knowledge/experience to handle it. Put it this way: A ten-year-old might inherit a classic Ferrari, but you sure as heck don't want him to drive it in traffic until he's learned everything he needs to know!

-- 
iSKUNK!

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