Greetings from an Anthropology Student! (who needs YOUR help!)
 "I am an anthropology student working on a project for my class. My mission: to discover the truth about the furry fandom, straight from the individuals who participate in it. I need to conduct some ethnographic interviews for my project; need your help!" Location: New York, USA
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Hello there! My name is Kevin (you can call me Kevin or Duckman), and I am a college student. I am currently working on a project for my anthropology class. The mission of my project is to learn more about furry fandom and those who feel connected to and participate in the fandom. I am not out to misinterpret or make light of furries or the fandom. My mission is to gather honest, real information about furry fandom and the individuals interested in it. I will be conducting some ethnographic interviews (the core of my project), and I would really appreciate as much information on furry fandom as possible. If anyone would like to participate in an interview for my project to bring awareness to furries and the fandom, contact me. (You can be anonymous, if you would like. I will supply more information about the interviews if asked.) It would mean a lot to me for people to participate and help me out, and I would really appreciate your contributions and assistance. If you would like to participate, or if you have any questions or information at all, feel free to contact me, either publicly or by sending me a private message on the forum. Thank you very much! |
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Location: Ardmore, PA
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If you want information, a good starting place would be WikiFur, the Furry Encyclopedia: http://furry.wikia.com/
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My LiveJournal - My Website - See what I'm doing on Twitter
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permalinkThis is very interesting. I've always thought that the denizens of furry fandom would make good material for ethnographic study.
The only problem is, if all you're doing is interviews, you're only going to get a small piece of a very big picture. In addition to that---maybe even as a precursor to that---you need to do some real field study, at a con or other such furry event. Interviewees might not think to bring up the somewhat different boundaries of proxemics among many furries, for example, whereas at a con you'll see it all about you.
Fursuiter antics/behavior comes to mind, too---the lion's share of it is "you had to be there" stuff.
--
iSKUNK!
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permalinkWebsite: [Link]
Another one already?
Folks are sure taking an interest in taking our views and psychology apart to report back on. Where are the lab rats when you need them?
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permalinkWith the exception of the two first sylables, I fail to see any connection between Anthropology and Anthrocon. Would you consider a study of development of family and society as influenced by Star Wars and practiced by science fiction fans appropriate? I tend to take any attempt by an individual to investigate the fandom with a grain of salt. Furry's most distinctive feature is the diversity, nonconformity and lack of agreement among its participants. Nothing in Kevin's post suggests he or his college class is prepared for the relativily amorphous organization that we are.
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permalinkLocation: New York, USA
^I have done a fair amount of research on furry fandom, and realize that it is an amorphous concept. But anthropology can extend to various groups, including furry fandom and Anthrocon. Anthropology is essentially the scientific study of the origin, behavior, and physical, social, and cultural development of of a group of people. I am pursuing these qualities in my project. The fact that the fandom is so amorphous is already a definition of what it is. I am looking to find that definition and bring light to it.
As for field note and research techniques, I agree that it would be good to conduct some of this in person. But it is not uncommon in the assignment's history to use the Internet as an effective tool, as people have studied massive role playing games, World of Warcraft fans, and numerous other subcultures and forums entirely through the vast resources that the Internet can provide.
It may not be the best group to study, but I believe that the fandom is worth the analysis and worth considering. It's as valid as any other group or subculture, or so I believe, and I intend to express that through the facts and evidence that I can compile.
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permalinkLocation: DelMarVa
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I'd be interested in participating, for what it's worth.
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Big time advice here:
Please, if you're going to try and create a presentation about the furry fandom for any purpose, please come to Anthrocon first. If you have less than three years experience with furry in general and have never been to a major event, prepare to get a partial slice at *best*.
This has been tried several dozen times before, myself included on the list on the video documentary side of things. (Back when I had only attended two cons and was in film school) In that category of videos, it's only been successfully pulled off once for my experience, and there was over three years worth of work put into it. I'm sure someone has the link to it. And I've seen at least two dozen serious attempts go down since 2002.
Everyone's experience and definition is different. The only way to properly introduce someone via media/presentation/research is to literally present them with a wealth of resources and let them experience it for themselves.
Single pieces/papers are tough as hell to do, and in my own experience, make for some uncomfortable audience members in classes. Plus, they will be expecting you to explain *in detail* what the furry fandom is in the imminent chance you've not expressed it well enough via your piece. (Oh yes, I've been there! *twice* with video...) In all honesty, if you can, I'd wait a year or two and get some solid furry experience underneath your belt. Local gatherings, furry cons, anything you can, including talking in-depth with the 'veterans' of the fandom.
In the end, it's very easy to get a slice of the greater fandom, what makes it up and what keeps us here, but let me tell you that a single slice really leads to little more than a hazy and uncomfortable snapshot of what we're all about. Speaking as a fellow lover and former student of the social sciences, as well as the furry fandom, the best advice I can give you is take this slow. Don't hesitate to drag your research out over the course of a year or two utilizing several sources of conventions and communities.
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permalinkLocation: DelMarVa
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I agree that you should probobly hit up two or three of the larger conventions before getting anything definitive down on paper. I'm sure you'll enjoy yourself, anyways. If you're interested in coming and need a room, we can squeeze you into ours. Medical and chemistry college student room ftw.
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Hi Kevin or Duckman!
*conspiratorial whisper* I'm an anthropologist myself (no longer in college at the moment alas; on the upside I have papers, like a purebred dog or something!). Let me third the suggestion that you need to have a close, genuine knowledge of conventions to write cogently about the fandom.
I'm a scientist and a sceptic and I was originally moderately sceptical about conventions. Suffice it to say I suspect now that trying to understand the fandom entirely from an Internet perspective is substantially like trying to understand good and evil by watching "Star Wars". You'll get a rough (even fairly good) idea, but it lacks the nuances you need to get good science done. If time or other constraints prevent you from hitting up Anthrocon, it behoves you to disclose this.
There have also been broader demographic surveys done, which may or may not be of use to you. David Rust has written one up, as have I. Helpful? I'd like it to be, at least. In either case more signal than noise, hopefully.
If nothing else good luck. And if nothing else come to AC because it will be awesome, if not scientifically edifying.
-Alex "Klisoura" Osaki
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permalinkLocation: Philadelphia, PA
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If I had a nickel for every time I've read this post, I'd be so rich at this point it's unbelievable.
I think furry is the number one source of incomplete research studies and documentaries in the known universe.
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The only study that I would consider valid (meaning it is performed by a professional with IRB approval and published in a reputable peer-reviewed journal) is Kathleen Gerbasi's study, which is still ongoing after three years.
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From a purely social standpoint, I would be very interested in seeing a study done on furries containing the following data:
1. Character species, fictional or non-fictional
2. Geographic location and primary language
3. Gender
4. Race
5. Age bracket
6. Income bracket
7. Education level
8. Profession
9. Sexuality as rated on the Kinsey scale
10. Checklist of sexual predilections
11. Presence and type of pathological neurology or psychology (autistic-spectrum disorders, OCD, psychosis, sociopathy, schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder, body dysmorphic disorder, depression, etc.)
12. Political alignment
13. Religious affiliation and strength of said affiliation, if any
Furthermore, I would like to see the same study performed on other members of society in the following other subcultures and communities, with the following modifications:
- Generalized sci-fi fandom (with 1. replaced with the person's preferred movie, book or television series)
- LARP / roleplaying fandom (with 1. replaced with the person's preferred world and role to play)
- Generalized videogaming fandom (with 1. replaced with the person's preferred game, series, and genre)
- Body-modification community (with 1. replaced with a list of personal modifications, including piercings, brands, scarifications, and any surgical modifications)
- The general population (with 1. replaced with four questions regarding the person's preferred movie, book, television series or musical genre)
I am mainly interested in seeing such a study in order to determine the following things:
- Do furries have a higher incidence of neurological or psychological pathology versus the general population?
- Is there a correlation between the species a furry selects and the prevalence of that species in regional mythology, history, folklore or idioms?
- Are furries typically more or less financially, educationally, and professionally affluent than the general population? Likewise with other subcultures.
- Is there a correlation between sci-fi fans' movie, book, and television series preferences and the general popularity or success of said movies, books, and television series in the region? Likewise with games.
- Are males and gay males genuinely in larger number in the furry community versus the general population, or is this "statistic" merely overstated?
Frankly, unless all five of the above questions and more can be answered by a given study, I'm not convinced of its utility.
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permalinkLocation: Harrisonburg, VA 22802
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One problem with looking for correlations related to psychological conditions; there are a LOT of furs who will claim to have things like aspergers or ADD without an actual diagnosis, just by playing the "symptoms checklist" game. In fact, in all the time I've been around the furry fandom, I've only met one person who claimed to have aspergers who had actually gone to a doctor and gotten a real diagnosis for it.
So, such a study would have to take that into account, though I'm not quite sure how. Statistics and surveys aren't really my forte.
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permalinkYou've to also remember there are people who are declared ADD by a general doctor/family practitioner, but not a psychologist... Doctors can be wrong is it is not their specific field.
I've ADD, and am trying to get it corrected. It may have been okay when I was younger, but it feels like its getting worse. I've been working at the mental health center for 2 years now, and have been stubborn to even get treated. It is *very* apparent at times. Though, I still think its dietary, so the doctor recommended I go through his list of things which might be messed up. You'd be surprised how many problems can be related to something like lack of omega-3, tonsils, or some other imbalance.
I'm just happy my friend, a clinician, is in the children's department, he probably would have laughed through the form. :/ Though I don't care what people think about me.
Every time my friend would laugh when we went to dinner, he would jest about the ADD because it can be very apparent.
There is a checklist in the ICD-9 manual, though it is mainly specific ones, not only that, it is the feeling. You just can't run through a list and say, "he is ADD." This is why the doctor spends time with patients to better understand, since it can be a different problem. I could tell some stories how another doctor thought it was one thing and another said it was another, but to be right. The doctor who was right said it was a tumor, and yes it was. The first doctor was not a psychologist, the second was, this is why going to a doctor who focuses in a field to get diagnosed is VERY important. I can't stress how important it is via words. Getting the wrong diagnosis can be deadly for the patient.
There are also those who say are ADD who are just being bad. Many bad kids in schools tend to be given ritalin when there is really nothing wrong with them but bad parenting. You'll see them clearly because the teacher will say they're ADD and need medication, when in reality they need a good red bottom.
Anyway, laters.
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permalinkWebsite: [Link]
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You've met two, actually, and I'm sick and tired of the self-diagnosed folks using it as a crutch. "Oh god, I have Asperger's Syndrome, so I'm allowed to be an idiosyncratic weirdo who can't behave in social situations! You're not allowed to be offended when I inevitably lack the self-control to not offend folks, because it's my disability, nehhh!"
The CEO of the company I work for has been diagnosed with AS and is once of the most sociable, cool people I know, guys. I refuse to listen to excuses after finding that out.
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permalinkhehe, I see a variety of people where I work. I just don't understand, though maybe people want to be diagnosed so they can go on disability.
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permalinkLocation: Harrisonburg, VA 22802
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I think it's more a matter of people looking for an excuse for a total lack of social skills.
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Screw that, social skills can be learned by rote. I refuse to believe that there's such a thing as someone with AS who can't learn to be social.
Sure, if you stop to think about it once you've learnt it you realize that you're little more than a pre-programmed robot responding to hard-coded stimuli, but it gets me friends and it gets me where I'm going in life.
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permalinkLocation: Philadelphia area, PA
That is one of the hallmarks of AS, i believe--that such folks are not just autistic, but high function autistic. As with any other ongoing imbalance or dysfunction, i imagine that a lot of it comes down to learning what causes problems and developing coping skills to deal with it. Temple Grandin is a classic example of this for autism spectrum.
Of course, i've also come to recognize that sometimes, clearly stating your imbalance(s) (once properly diagnosed), can in itself be part of the coping mechanism. That doesn't absolve you of your responsibility to look for ways to minimize the effects and cope as best you can. But sometimes you just run up against a brick wall with those issues, and you really just need others to be patient.
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permalinkLocation: Roseville, CA, USA
To paraphrase Faraday: Of what utility is a new-born baby?
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Since I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, I'll simply reply directly to the question itself: They taste good with a lemon-butter béchamel sauce.
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permalinkLocation: Roseville, CA, USA
Michael Faraday was a Scientist, with a capital "S". While I think he is best known to the general public for his research into electricity, particularly the induction of electric current, he was first a researcher in Chemistry, and made many discoveries and conducted many experiments in that field for his entire professional life.
And he gave public readings of his researches, and public demonstrations of some of his experiments. During one such presentation, - I believe it was on the generation of an electric current through the motion of a conductor through a magnetic field, and through the motion of a field past a stationary conductor, the principal on which the design of dynamos, generators and alternators is based, - a woman in the audience commented that this was all very well to know, but of what USE was it?
His reply: - "Madam, of what use is a new-born baby?"
(Inferring, of course, that it may have no use NOW - and electric currents in 1831 didn't have much at the time - but that it could grow to be something of substance and significance, which definitely happened with generating electric currents.)
This has been a rallying cry for people involved in Basic Research, just pursuing knowledge for the sake of the pursuit, for curiosity's sake, without a specific application or utilitarian goal in sight. Another prominent scientist once described Basic Research as "what I'm doing when I don't really know what I'm doing."
So - when you posted some interesting criteria for a Furry Study, and then finished that post with:
Well, it reminded me of Faraday's response.
Nothing negative was meant by it, I assure you - and as another poster has mentioned, this seems to be a common subject which, for a variety of reasons, never seems to lead anywhere - but who can say? Perhaps he, or DrG, will uncover a nugget, which leads to SOMEONE finding utility in it, even if it should escape our own notice.
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permalinkBlog: [Link]
Dr. Gerbasi already has data that says "no," and in fact suggests that they actually have a lower incidence. That study is still ongoing, however.
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Sounds interesting, I'll take a look.
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I wish I had a dollar for every time I posted my "essay" above. It's getting ridiculous.
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permalinkLocation: Roseville, CA, USA
While I wish you success in your endeavor, from what I have read so far in your initial proposal and follow ups, I don't think that you will; indeed, I think that you have already run afoul of the concept, and are off track for anything approaching the essence.
It is a little bit like studying the vast Mystery ("Detective Story") fandom; a fascinating world is shared by such an illustrious group as the Baker Street Irregulars, for example, but to go to one or several of their annual dinners, or attend meetings of local scions and reading all of their fannish publications, you will FAIL UTTERLY to grasp what they are about, or WHY they are fans, if you do not FIRST read some Arthur Conan Doyle, starting with A STUDY IN SCARLETT perhaps, and learn something first about Sherlock Holmes, Dr Watson, Inspector Lestrade, and the world of the first "consulting detective". Then AFTER you have a firm grasp of Sherlockian canon and culture - or, just as likely, it has a firm grasp on you - THEN you can get the essence of the Baker Street Irregulars.
The genre of Mystery Literature is vast; the types, styles, periods, lexicon are distinct but very numerous, but whether one is a fan of 'Police Procedurals' or Open vs Closed mysteries, or Film Noir first-person narratives of hard-boiled private eyes such as those written of by Hammett or Chandler or Spillane, or you just can't get enough of Miss Marple or Hercule Periot or Nero Wolf, you can see and understand the core views and principles that Mystery Fans share and hold in common, making them a "Fandom".
"Fandoms" have certain characteristics which apply to NASCAR race fans, Rail fans, Air Show fans, Re-enactors of period or event, and fans of mass media. There are levels of Fan involvement, from the generic Sports Fan who watches anything on TV on a weekend, to Specific team boosters and over-enthusiastic college alumni who wind up having practice fields or team dormitories named after themselves.
I would recommend first, that you gain a general understanding of the concept of "fandom" and the common markers and precepts, including typical and atypical fannish behaviour. Second, start a study of Anthropomorphic Animals, and their use and relation to human culture, not just western culture but through the history of humanity, and follow THAT as far and as wide as you can stretch it - and THEN, look at "FURRY FANDOM" - and see in what ways it is both like other fandoms, and in what other ways that it is very much different; I think that you will see something novel and surprising.
But don't just look at the fans as lab rats or behavioural study subjects, look at the thing(s) that they are fans of. If you do not do that first, all you will be doing is collecting interesting specimens of individual opinion and behaviour, but gaining no understanding behind it all.
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permalinkLocation: NiagaraFalls NY
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Well I ought to be grading homework assignments but furries are more important!
Regarding furry research, some of the findings from our 2006 study which are about to be published in a peer reviewed journal (Society & Animals) and which as Uncle Kage said was an IRB approved project are on line currently living on a page of the American Sociological Association (I am a psychologist but that is another story).
http://www2.asanet.org/sectionanimals/ mid way down the page, click on recent articles by members.
Additional information (preliminary from 2007 study) is on my live journal page
http://drg_kcgerbasi.livejournal.com .
All the advice to attend a con is fantastic. I was unable to attend when my team gathered data in 2006, my middle kid's PhD ceremony was at Stanford at the same time as Anthrocon 06. I was able to attend in 2007 and the atmosphere really contributes a great deal to getting a feeling about the fandom.
Several of the questions posed in various comments we have gather data on, kinsey scale, education, occupation, sex age...
we are wrapping up plans for our 2008 project in the next few weeks.
IT IS A HUGE AMOUNT of work to conduct a good study!!!
Interviewing a few people might be interesting, but you will only know what a few people think (and those would be ones who volunteered who may be different from ones who would not volunteer).
We have the same problem in surveying but at least we get hundreds of participants for which we are very greatful.
I can be reached at
DrG
aka Kathleen C Gerbasi PhD
(social psychologist)
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permalinkWebsite: [Link]
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Kathy, has anyone yet taken issue with the massive bias likely introduced by using college students as your control? While I'm appreciative that someone is at least trying to unlock the mysteries of what makes furries tick, as it were, I'd be a lot more comfortable with your findings if the control group was comprised of a random sampling of people from all walks of life, not just folks in a psych class.
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permalinkLocation: NiagaraFalls NY
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HI MooglyGuy,
at least from whoever has read it online.
Good point, at this time the article is in press, so no problem with fall out yet
We actually had a second control group, which was people at Anthrocon WHO WERE NOT FURRY. This is clearly a much better control group than college students, though in 2006 the number was fairly small.
Although our college students being community college students are probably more similar to the general population than university students.
In 2007 we had college student controls and a higher number of non-furs at Anthrocon as a second comparison group. One reason in 07 to keep the college students was the results from 06 in which college students were significantly more likely to describe the typical college student as having mental problems than furries and non furs at con were to use those terms to describe furries. We used self-report in 2007 and found few differences between the college students and furries (or the non-furs either if I recall correctly but I would have to double check to be sure).
This year we are going to try and get more non-furs from Anthrocon to participate, make sure they know we do not want only furries, and we are not planning to have any college students at all (that is the current version of the plan).
With IRB's and extremely protective rules about going out and surveying people, getting a random sample at a mall or something would be tough.(Even college students are tough because some are not yet 18 and we cannot let them participate even for course credit!
Sometime I would love to have a comparison group from a Star trek convention or something like that.
Because the research is basically funded by me out of pocket etc, AND I teach full time at a community college where research is not part of my job description it would be hard to find the time to run around and get another sample from somewhere else.
Please let me know if you have other questions.
Thank you!
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You have several good points, and I can certainly understand where you're coming from with regards to funding.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure that a sampling of non-furs at Anthrocon is going to be any better in terms of a random population distribution; I submit that people attending Anthrocon, whether they self-identify as furries or not, are far more likely to share more traits with furries than the population at large. I'm not really sure how best to remedy that, if at all, though.
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permalinkLocation: NiagaraFalls NY
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Not much research is conducted using random samples, maybe with the exception of professional polling and those are more likely stratified random sampling. Since virtually no research has been done looking at the furry fandom, except the work we have done and the undergraduate online study out of UC Davis, (which by the way also used college students as a control group, but did not ask all the same questions of furries and the control group), I have taken the position that you have to start somewhere.
One option is also to compare furry results to values in the research literature which are based on numerous samples, but of course you have to ask who was sampled. This is possible for some variables like sexual orientation, but not possible for others when you are asking novel questions such as species of fursona.
By the way there were some differences between the non-furs at anthrocon and the furries at anthrocon. Again all of these are empirical questions which can only be addressed by collecting data and looking at results.
For example Uncle Kage told us in 2006 we could attend Anthrocon and try to collect data but that no one would participate in the survey. We decided that itself was an empirical question, so we took the plunge and over 200 people participated. In 2007 we had over 600.
Given how well Uncle Kage has the pulse of the fandom, we had every reason to believe that he was right, but we decided to give it a shot.
I can safely say it will be a long time before enough studies are done to safely conclude that any results that have been gathered about furries are reliable and valid. But on the other hand this is how science works. You start somewhere and continue to improve and refine your studies and hope that other people also begin to work on your topic so you have other points of comparison and reference.
On the other other hand if you have a spare, think about the media junk that has been put out by uninformed journalists and sensationalists about furries. I think we all know about that stuff.
Would you rather have people refer to that to get information about furries, or have access to information and results from a scientifically conducted studies based on a sizable sample of participants with at least some control (comparison) group?
My view, is I know our work is not perfect, (not much research is, if you know how to assess it), but it is better than anything else available AND each year, I think we have improved on our previous year's study and we will continue to do so.
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All very good points, and duly noted.
Don't get me wrong, Doctor - I certainly appreciate the efforts that you're putting in towards finally proving that furries, while odd, are not mentally broken as the rest of the Internet likes to put forth. I'm simply making suggestions that, should you win the lottery or whatnot, might be worth at least considering.
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permalinkLocation: Youngstown, OH
I'm sure she would. There are quite a few studies on different subcultures and popular culture out there: http://www.library.yale.edu/humanities/media/popularculture.html is one example of useful research items. It's even possible to find information on other fandoms without necessarily attending a convention by looking for it, such as you can here for Star Trek: http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/0/1/4/9/0/p14905_index.html
The unique thing about furry is that it is basically below radar as far as research is concerned. There's very little peer reviewed works out there on furry, so whatever Dr. G or anyone else does on furry is VERY valuable because it adds to the body of knowledge. It will not be perfect, of course, but it WILL get better as more people do research.
Furry is a state of mind.
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permalinkLocation: Philadelphia area, PA
*nodnodnods* In some respects, it seems like furry was such an unknown quantity to the psychological/sociological/anthropological community, it may have been difficult to even know what questions to ask, much less what the answers were.
I don't expect even the good doctor herself expects to answer every question with her studies; it's just not reasonable. If she can help us build up enough reasonably objective information that we can start to see what the really pertinent questions are, however, that in and of itself will really be something.
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permalinkLocation: NiagaraFalls NY
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You folks are very sophisticated from a social science perspective, you are absolutely correct, it is difficult to know what questions to ask AND the questions asked and the results from those questions shape subsequent work and approaches. The questions we have asked have come from several sources (and as time goes on I think better sources). All we had to begin with was the dreaded Vanity Fair piece. Our work there generated other questions and our approaches to the questions have been a function of me being a research social psychologist with a developmental psych background. My theoretical model leans pretty heavily in the cognitive social/cognitive behavioral direction.
A Freudian would obviously take some other approach, which I personally would NOT find useful.
Another issue is there are some questions that may be sensitive and either cause respondents to not complete a survey or not to participate.
These are very serious issues and there are not obvious answers as to how to approach them.
As far as the lottery goes, I do not even know how to fill out a lottery ticket, one of my former students suggests I should add a question on the survey like does your family own an oil well and would they like to start a furry research institute
Thanks for all the helpful ideas and brain prods!
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