^_^ How many unix admins or programmers are there at the con?
Posted by wolfe on Fri, 2008-03-07 19:04
This page is from a past convention. It is kept here for archival and informational purposes only.
Please visit our forums for the latest announcements and discussion.
Please visit our forums for the latest announcements and discussion.
 Location: Currently Alaska
|
Note: Not really talking about fad things like RoR, but system level programming and administration. I was reading a few threads and seen a couple people who are on the OpenAFS mailing list. Curious what others are out there. **** Yeah, blah blah blah. RoR good... no its no. **** Python and Django(if web)/Twisted(networking stuff)/and other Python stuff all the way, at least until Ruby 2.0 comes out with the holy byte compiler output so I can compile ruby scripts. Yesh |
I love to program in the C programming language. C/C++ are the standards for OS programming and system level tools.
Delicious
Digg
Facebook
Google
Yahoo
Technorati
Icerocket
Real programmers love C because it's the only language they can spell.
CharlieG (who has made his living programming IBM Mainframes and Midranges since 1969)
- Login or register to post comments
permalink*grin* let me guess, you were one of those who were a die hard FORTRAN fan?
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkHell, no! 360/370 Assembler was my drug of choice.
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkWebsite: [Link]
Blog: [Link]
Does programming in C for a game console count?
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkSure it does. Not to be mean by singling others out. I pretty much meant programming which was complex and not simplistic.. yeah.. I'm prejudice against people who ALWAYS use a gui designer for their applications which tend to be completely clueless when they need to do some advanced task in the GUI or other non-gui function.
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: Cwmbran, UK
Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]
I haven't done any system-level stuff since DOS unfortunately, although when I did, I really did - some of my code is in the DRDOS kernel
Since then I've been writing PDA application code for a living, mostly in Windows CE, though I designed the thing around a POSIX core so that it can be ported (with a new GUI layer) to Linux. The recent emergence of PDA-like Linux devices such as the EeePC and the Elonex One give me a better bargaining position with the boss...
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkProgramming for PDAs looks fun, I never was able to find the time to get in to it however. I think the problem was I wanted a device which supported wireless b and had a battery life for at least 3-5 hours. The eeePC looks like its a winner, I don't know about the new eeePC version they're going to release, we'll have to see.
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkI miss DOS. Especially old DOS, when you had to type in a line of absolute gibberish to execute a program, although I can no longer remember what those command lines were. Something like...@*start*=file_robotfactory.exe
Not absolute gibberish I guess, but I was only like 5 when using my Commodore 64 :\ Made no sense to me then, barely makes sense to me now.
-If someone walks up to you and says they are a pathological liar, would you believe them?
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkMy day job involves development of cross-platform OEM libraries in C on Linux, targeting Linux, several old-school Unices, and Windows. I've been fortunate to get a lot of synergy from open-source projects, both in using and contributing to them, and if you Google my real name you'll see traces of the work I've done in that space.
And yes, my workplace uses OpenAFS
It's not for the faint of heart (if NFS is a Piper Cub, AFS is a Boeing 747), but it is an incredibly powerful system well-suited to institutional use.
--
iSKUNK!
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkWebsite: [Link]
I'm in college currently, studying computer science. Most of the stuff we do here is in Java, but some things we do here are in C++ or other things. Also I worked in MIPS assembly, and designed a simple RISC processor. For a graphics course, I also did some programming in Cg, and lots of open GL, which was pretty awesome.
This summer I'll be interning at a software company, so I might not make it to the con. If I do end up making it there, it's always fun to talk to fellow programmers, so perhaps I'll see you all there.
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: Harrisonburg, VA 22802
Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]
I'm a Windows server admin, does that count? [ducks flying projectiles]
PHP programmer, too; ASP would be logical for my server system, but it scares me security-wise
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: UK
Website: [Link]
Heh - I run 4 servers and only 1 is Windows, yet it runs our e-commerce sites using ASP - and I've not had a security issue with it since 1998 (and only then as it was a shared box).
And lesse - since 1st Jan 2004 its run 61,927 orders for £1,455,471.43 worth with no problems
Still - the Linux Boxes (CentOS, CPanel) are okay for CMS and our more general sites.
Darkclaw T Wolf Esq.
AC Staffer 9 Years
Internet Room
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkASP.NET using VB.NET as the underlying language... get it away from me, it burns!!!! As much as PHP.
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: Harrisonburg, VA 22802
Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]
I love my PHP, but I agree with you about ASP. The only apps on my server using it are my webmail system, which came with the mail server, and my helpdesk/knowledge base, because I couldn't find a PHP system I liked.
As far as its security, it's not so much that I don't trust it at all, but I prefer to write my own scripts and web apps whenever possible, and it'd take a LOT of practice before I trusted myself to write ASP scripts that didn't have gaping security holes. Having to install a system-level ODBC driver to get ASP to communicate with MySQL was a downright disturbing experience.
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkI never understood why server side modules like PHP, ASP, mod_XXX don't escape everything by default. This is one of the reasons I like application frameworks like Django. They escape everything by default, and you have the option to just unescape the input. Also when using forms, you get the MyDataForm(response.POST), verify, then fetch the cleaned_data. I only wish I was born later, then perhaps there would be more sense than there currently is now. Still there are really lame bugs in software like phpBB.
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: Ardmore, PA
Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]
Because then you'll wind up with a database full of escaped data which is non-optimal. Sure, you won't have injection attacks, but you'll have horribly escaped data too.
What it comes down to is that neither extreme will work. Programmers still have to be intelligent when it comes to handling and sanitizing data.
--
My LiveJournal - My Website - See what I'm doing on Twitter
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkThere are two options: Store the escaped code and unescape it when you need it, or unescape the code when you save it.
Where would escaped code in the database always be useful? Forums, stories, commenting systems where you don't want users to write their own HTML. This is where people usually implement a BB code type system where to use bold, you must enclose the text in
I believe in sanitizing data by default, if it needs more sanitizing like.. well.. to enable unicode, utf-8, or any other encoding, you can. There is also the option in to clean the data from certain words after you receive the cleaned_data. This is why I like how web application frameworks are becoming. Some java frameworks had this functionality for a while, but who can use Java for web application work and actually be happy?
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: UK
Website: [Link]
Yes there are easy ways in PHP and ASP to clean form data of code / HTML etc etc, and again I've never seen a problem in this area. There are also easy Javascript functions around that'll do the job.
My main day to day worry is phpbb - version 2 is a security nightmare, and we're just shifting to Php5 and phpbb3 finally.
Darkclaw T Wolf Esq.
AC Staffer 9 Years
Internet Room
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkjavascript?! I never rely on user provided input, I have all the input cleaned from server side by default.
Yeah... since now Zend has EOLed PHP4 phpbb starts being serious about PHP5. They've been converting it little by little,but nothing extrodinate even though they get paid and donations for the project. PHP4 security fixes will be released until 08082008, then anyone who hasn't ported their code is screwed.
I find it rather funny since real programming languages will release fixes, even for Python 2.2. I find it rather offensive on Zends part since the type of tactic is probably the worst ever for forcing people to switch to PHP5.
Do I consider PHP a real language, no. Zend has showed great immaturity. Not providing security fixes for historical releases is by far the most insulting thing they could do. I'm not asking the world, security fixes are mostly easy things to fix relating to buffer exploits, unchecked input, etc..
I also find it really offensive on Zend/PHP.net's part they do not have a historical archive for PHP releases.
Several times have I ran in to issues trying to get really old systems working, and I couldn't because the release of PHP was no longer available for download. Python, Perl, Ruby, GNU compilers, intel compilers, and other vendors have always provided a historical archive so people can use old code if needed.
I'll never program in PHP ever again, and haven't since early php4.
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: Ardmore, PA
Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]
Um, yeah... Thanks for devaluing the language that I've spent most of my career writing in, and built this website with. That totally warms my heart.
--
My LiveJournal - My Website - See what I'm doing on Twitter
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkI've nothing against the people who use PHP. Zend devalued PHP itself as years went by.
Here is a good example. I've this friend who was using ModernBill for his hosting system. He mostly had this internally so security wasn't really an issue since it was only used internally. His was in the process of upgrading his server to the latest version of FreeBSD. Well guess what, he couldn't upgrade until he found some arcane version of PHP 3.1.something, some version which it stated in the MB docs which even I couldn't find. So he decided to buy the latest version of MB, but ModernBills conversion script did not work and they wanted some insane amount of money to convert it themselves. This made his billing system completely useless, so now he processes cards manually. He still doesn't have a sane billing system.
Is this ModernBill's fault? Partially but no. It's Zend's fault for not keeping a historical archive of PHP releases. Though the conversion script *should* have worked, it didn't. I expect people to keep releases available so people who want to run older software can run the software. FreeBSD, Windows, and Linux keep compat libraries available so people can utilize old software. I expect large companies like Zend who get paid plenty of money to keep the releases available.
note: I was trying to find the old php version so he could run multiple apache daemons so both versions(PHP3 and PHP5) of PHP could run.
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: Ardmore, PA
Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]
Wait, what? Old PHP releases going back through 5.x, 4.x.x, all the way to 3.0.18 are right here: http://www.php.net/releases/
Typing "php releases" into Google brings up this page as the #1 result.
Does this make PHP a real language now?
--
My LiveJournal - My Website - See what I'm doing on Twitter
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLook at those timestamps please... This issue was in abouts late 2005. Not all those releases were always there. Yes, I even performed FTP searches.
http://museum.php.net/php3/
I think the version is actually there now, but I'd have to check what the documentation was calling for, I don't remember problems from 2.5 years ago.
I did try my best though. I built a random versions of those, even on the system which it was originally installed which the result was negative. If I can get it to work, it ain't going to work. I sat there with GDB(its such crap), but I wasn't able to trace what call MB was choking on when trying to charge a CC. I kept getting a references to the php encryptor api. The API to LinkPoint has always remained compatible.
One of the issues were I was having trouble because of IceCube or whatever the hell it is called which is a PHP encryption engine. Most useless POS(PHP encryptors) ever, you can't easily debug code.
Okay, now... what I call a great vendor/company, is someone like Retrospect who went in to their storage for a 5 year old depreciated version of their backup software and ftp'ed me a copy. Now THAT is determination for wanting to keep customers and administrators to use their product. Not much I can say about zend, someone there said my friend should be using the latest version of MB... greaatt...
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: Ardmore, PA
Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]
Okay, so it sounds like the PHP people learned from their mistakes. Sounds like a good sign to me.
--
My LiveJournal - My Website - See what I'm doing on Twitter
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkAt this point I wonder if this thread should be moved from "misc" to "programming"
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: Harrisonburg, VA 22802
Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]
This little back-and-forth really makes me wonder, what web scripting languages DO you like? You don't like ASP, you don't take Javascript seriously, you think Ruby on Rails is a fad (I somewhat agree on that point, but it does show a lot of potential), and you don't consider PHP a "real" language. So, that basically leaves Perl (which is extremely similar to PHP in structure and syntax), Cold Fusion (expensive and proprietary), and JSP (similar to ASP's server environment).
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkI didn't say JavaScript was bad, I use it every day. I tsked as using javascript on the client side for escaping code.
X) read my first post, I use Python for most of my work. Rails is nothing but buzz, there are more sites and better programmers in the Java web frameworks.I don't mind java web frameworks, it just feels like I'm spending a great deal of time when I try writing one even though I learn the ins and outs... though if I had to write something in java, I'd choose wicket.
There is no way in hell I'll use a programming language straight up for web work unless it was something extremely simple like a status script.
For perl, I'd use Catalyst, it is pretty much the framework to use if I used Perl. Perl and Python tend to be the two most extended languages. I do consulting for ruby with debugging related tasks, and have written ruby scripts. I will not do anything else with Ruby until 2.0 comes out. The only reason Japanese people use ruby in Japan is for pride, the whole use of ruby outside of Japan was created mostly by americans and partially by DHH. Most of the ruby community actually frowns because a great deal of noobs are from Rails which don't know the Ruby language. Why? Did you know rails actually changes some of the default behavior of the default ruby objects? So this leads to confusion and pisses off the ones who have been focusing on ruby. Maybe I'm getting to be a cranky mean BOFH/programmer, but with good reason. I get cranky when some company buys the best C++ compiler of the time and flushes it all down the komode(Zortech C++ Compiler). Thankfully the author picked up his work and made D. I could rant all day on programming languages, programs, design, and what huge mistakes companies have made to anger programmers/users/and operators if you couldn't tell already.
Yeah, I'm biased, biased against projects which just always make people angry. I enjoy stability, competence, and company loyalty to a product. That is that for now, this is your Ranting Kangaroo Wolfe. XD
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: Philadelphia, PA
Website: [Link]
You not using something because of some arbitrary criteria doesn't make it not a real language, it makes you inflexible.
This seems more a thread to prove your own personal hardcore status than anything else. You just sorta seem to be randomly and angrily raging against everything that's not 20 years old.
Calm down.
Point I'm trying to make is if this is a post that's trying to be a friendly 'hey, I'm looking for people with similar interests to me to talk with at the con' this is not a good way to do it. I'm a software developer for a living (I use .NET by choice of my company) and I know that really, I wouldn't want to approach something I knew would result in arguing and bashing different environments to save my life while on vacation.
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: Harrisonburg, VA 22802
Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]
1. They can, depending on the settings. I don't know about ASP, but there are several different settings for it in PHP. However, relying on application settings is considered poor coding practice, because there are functions and such to do it, and it allows "lazy" code.
2. I certainly agree that phpBB is full of bugs, but blaming the code engine for developer mistakes/oversights is like blaming Microsoft for Photoshop problems. There are a ton of excellent, beautifully-written PHP applications available, both open-source and commercial, to handle any load. Case in point, the backend applications that drive all of Yahoo are written in PHP.
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkI've to disagree with relying on the type of clean by default practice. QMail has used this type of practice and you don't see exploits out the wazoo for it. When I say use, I mean DJB wrote his own custom functions instead of using the functions which were provided by the system. He developed a safe system so there would be little chance of exploiting the code.
More security by default is a good thing, this means programmers can be "lazy"... Lazy to implement more features and not have to deal with arcane code which shouldn't allow unescaped code to attack your application in the first place.
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: In a small little box in your small little mind.
Website: [Link]
I've programmed in Python and BASIC v3 for the TI-83.
I'm also the head project manager of a Linux distro built specifically for furries.
Does that count?
-----------------
The desire to dream is primordial. Some evolutionary process has instilled life on this planet with the ability to dream. It is essential to survival. Even dogs dream.
- Login or register to post comments
permalink*grin* You included a prebuilt library of images in to the distribution, right?
)
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: In a small little box in your small little mind.
Website: [Link]
Only clean ones
-----------------
The desire to dream is primordial. Some evolutionary process has instilled life on this planet with the ability to dream. It is essential to survival. Even dogs dream.
- Login or register to post comments
permalink. . . and how many does it take to screw in a light bulb?
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: Harrisonburg, VA 22802
Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]
How many Linux users to screw in a light bulb?
One to say that on Linux their light bulbs never burn out.
Another to say that they don't use light bulbs with Linux, they like waving their hands around in the dark better.
One to find light_bulb_0.4.12.rpm
One to say "you should be using light_bulb.i386.0.4.12.rpm
One to solve the dependancy on light_socket.1.0.2.lib.so and light_switch.2.1.0.lib.so
One to suggest using Debian, they wouldn't have dependancy problems in the first place.
Another to suggest Mandrake, cause with Debian they wouldn't have gotten the wiring installed in the first place.
Another to suggest Gentoo, where he just types "emerge light_bulb".
Another to complain that with Gentoo he'd be waiting around for light all weekend.
One to suggest waiting around for next month's user group meeting where everyone could help screw in the light bulb.
One who says candle_3.2 works just fine for him and doesn't see why light_bulb is worth all the trouble.
One to start the HOWTO (credit User FWC)
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: Orlando, FL
And every single one of them would say "Whatever you do, don't open the Windows! Heck, I don't even want to think about a SUN shining in here!"
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: New Brighton, MN, USA
Website: [Link]
Apparently, it is complex as licking a Tootsie-Pop. The world may never know...
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkLocation: Ardmore, PA
Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]
My IDE is screen + vi.
--
My LiveJournal - My Website - See what I'm doing on Twitter
- Login or register to post comments
permalinkWebsite: [Link]
You saying that made me instantly think of this haha.
I myself never liked emacs all that much. I haven't learned vi yet, but far too many of my friends swear by it for me to not end up picking it up soon. Lately, since practically everything I do is in Java these days, Eclipse has been my IDE of choice.
- Login or register to post comments
permalink