GMRS radio piracy - A real problem

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arcturax's picture
"The original batbat"

Location: Milford, Ohio

I know a lot of furs like to use portable radios, which is generally ok. However a lot of radios sold in stores now can do FRS and GMRS.

What many people don't know is that even though you can get the radios at wal-mart, you need an FCC license to use the GMRS features. The FRS (low power and 1-2 mile range only) are ok for the public to use. Even organizations and businesses can use FRS radio.

However GMRS, that 10-25 mile range that is advertized in huge letters on the current radios requires an FCC license to use. Organizations and businesses are prohibited from using GMRS as it is meant for individuals only. Licenses are $85 for five years and cover you and your immediate family. You do have to learn some general radio etiquette and how to use call signs but it isn't hard to get.

Now millions of people become pirates on accident because shops are selling these without telling you about the required license to get the full advertised range from them. While getting caught on the road, where the extra range comes in handy, is unlikely using that at the con can bring trouble down on you or even onto the convention itself. This is even more important for con staff than con goers, but if either violate the rules, it could get the FCC in and they will focus on the con because it's the most easily identifiable organization that is using any kind of radio and they will have to endure radio inspections.

The cost for being caught is probably going to be a "knock it off" at first because so many of the public are unaware. But they always hit organizations and business harder because they can squeeze money out of them. It's $10000 if you get fined, and individuals can do time in prison for repeated violations.

So please check your radios if you will be using them at the convention. Make sure you are using FRS only, or that you are licensed for GMRS and that you use your call sign.

It sucks that this situation exists, they should convert this over to digital radio with talkgroup keys, which would eliminate this problem and the need for licensing since each group would have a virtual private channel. But until that time, we are still analog and because of the high range, probability of interference and power of the GMRS mode on these things, FCC licensing is required. Keep that in mind if you bring your radios to the con.

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SpikeBlackfang's picture
"Woof!"

Location: Pittsburgh (Aspinwall), PA, USA

Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]

It is a real problem everywhere. Folks like me who actually went out there and applied and paid for a GMRS license to only hear those annoying alert/calling ringtones be played over and over for minutes at a time and screaming kids in a radio with the occasional music being played... I'd be willing to bet they don't have a license. As a sidenote, living 5 minutes from Anthrocon myself, there is a good bit of licensed legal GMRS activity. There are several GMRS repeaters in Pittsburgh with a few downtown, a few in the City limits, and a few in some outlying areas of Pittsburgh. I myself plan on putting one up soon (but not in time for AC).

I have a GMRS license (WQAW630) and I'm also a licensed amateur radio operator (K9SPK).

Spike Blackfang
http://www.spikeblackfang.com

firehopper's picture
Location: Kutztown, PA

I work at walmart and I kept telling customers, if they were interested in the long range radios, that they need a licence.. I just didnt know how much.. now I do..

SpikeBlackfang's picture
"Woof!"

Location: Pittsburgh (Aspinwall), PA, USA

Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]

For all that you can do with GMRS, the licensing fee is relatively inexpensive and lasts you 5 years.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=service_home&id=general_mobile

Spike Blackfang
http://www.spikeblackfang.com

arcturax's picture
"The original batbat"

Location: Milford, Ohio

I plan to get one myself. I recently learned about this when I was looking into getting a long range radio for use in convention convoys. Unfortunately I won't be making AC this year because of medical bill from earlier in the year. But when a few local furs were talking about using GMRS at AC this year, I realized that this could be a problem for the con.

And yeah, the noise on those is insane in big cities. The FCC has totally lost control of this. What they really ought to do is just ditch the FRS/GMRS scheme and reclassify those frequencies for digital radio use and have digital GMRS that can be used at the long range power levels, but with radio groups that can be keyed together so that you have no interference from other talkgroups. That would eliminate this problem completely and give the public a nice easy to use radio system that would not need a license. The only problem I can see with this is that it would render all current FRS and GMRS radios out there as useless.

gizmonine's picture
Location: Maine, USA

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This user is a Staff Member.

The packages actually say (as they are legally obligated to) that you need an FCC license to use the GMRS feature.
Most people just ignore it. I have considered buying a set of radios and licensing, but currently I have been getting by just fine with the conventions radio system and of course the cell phone communications network.
I would actually recommend (and have in the past) that if people want to keep in contact with one another at con, they exchange cell phone numbers rather than use a radio system. With the number of radios commonly available at walmart and radio shack, you can bet the frequencies will be jammed with traffic at con. Even if you have a radio, you probably wont be able to tell what your friend is saying anyway.

Cell phones = better range, less traffic, no worries about licensing. Also, you don't have to worry about someone missing your message because their radio was turned off.

arcturax's picture
"The original batbat"

Location: Milford, Ohio

Some problems with cell phones are they don't get good reception inside buildings such as convention centers or hotels. Some do, some don't. It's a crapshoot with cell phones. These radios are good for driving and keeping a convoy together as they are less complicated then a cell phone and you can talk to multiple people at once.

Now while packages say that you need a license now, they didn't always in the past. Also some people get their radios from yard sales, friends or ebay, or they didn't read the fine print on the box. I just wanted people to be aware. I don't know if the con has had problems in the past with FCC complaints and I'm certainly not about to generate one myself. But as one guy pointed out, downtown will have a lot higher density of radio users outside the convention area and those with licenses may get upset and complain as this has been a growing problem. I only learned about the restriction when I was looking into getting one of these for keeping convoys going to cons. I had a friend get lost on the way back from Morphicon and he was quickly out of range and his cell phone was not turned on and when he did turn it on, he was dialing my home # instead of my cell for help. I located him finally, but it made me look into longer range radios. I was researching the best brand when I came across this restriction and I realized it could be a problem for the con. I see a lot of people with these at AC and I have a feeling a ton of furs don't realize that some of the radios they have come with FCC restrictions on use.

Giza's picture
"100% usynlig - som en ninja!"

Location: Ardmore, PA

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I guess it's a good thing that Anthrocon has never used GMRS radios.

 
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RappyRaptor's picture
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia

Website: [Link]

In Canada you don't need a licence to use an FRS radio thats got a very long range :3

Exkhaniber's picture

Yes, but in Canada is IS required to say "eh?" after completing every sentence. "Roger that, over, eh?"

-If someone walks up to you and says they are a pathological liar, would you believe them?

RappyRaptor's picture
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia

Website: [Link]

Your jokes would be funnier if that sterotype was true!

Exkhaniber's picture

If it were true, it wouldn't be a stereotype but an observation, eh?

-If someone walks up to you and says they are a pathological liar, would you believe them?

desteredra's picture
"Little dragon. Big mouth."

Location: Philadelphia area, PA

This user is a Staff Member.

Quote:
Yes, but in Canada is IS required to say "eh?" after completing every sentence. "Roger that, over, eh?"

That's only in certain ares of canada. Saskatchewan, for instance, is so big and sparsely populated that they get excited when someone's even in range of a radio.

RappyRaptor's picture
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia

Website: [Link]

Quote:
That's only in certain ares of canada. Saskatchewan, for instance, is so big and sparsely populated that they get excited when someone's even in range of a radio

Try explaining that to them. Most tend to think all of Canada talks like that.

Exkhaniber's picture

Naw, I don't think most people think Canadians talk like that. It's just relatively easy to poke fun at. Same with people from other countries thinking that all American's use "y'all".

-If someone walks up to you and says they are a pathological liar, would you believe them?

RappyRaptor's picture
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia

Website: [Link]

I like to turn your joke around thats all!

Exkhaniber's picture

Not just you though Smiling But hey, if the worst someone thinks of me is saying "y'all", then I can handle that. So long as they don't think I [insert heavily political commentary here] or supported [political group], then everything is A-okay!

-If someone walks up to you and says they are a pathological liar, would you believe them?

Alondro's picture
"Lions are lazy, very lazy. However, never tell one that to its face, lest you be sliced like bacon."

Location: NJ

Can you hear me now?

Good.

:B

electropaw's picture
Location: Gulfport, MS

Website: [Link]

You do bring up a good point on the GMRS radios, yes technically the service is license only. But in reality, unless if the unlicensed transmissions were causing a threat to public safety or property, it probably wouldn't be dealt with.

Remember the 150 MHz 2-way business band radio service? Several years ago, the FCC decided to allow unlicensed transmissions only if the power was kept below a certain level. It's called MURS. Someday the same thing "might" happen to the GMRS service.

Yes educate users to not use the GMRS channels unless if they have licenses, and to just use alternate means (like cell phones or FRS, the Furry Radio Service!) instead. Seems like just about everyone has a cell phone of some kind these days. But I do see what the possible problem could be with the cell phones, as the convention center does act like a Faraday Cage at times Sticking out tongue

arcturax's picture
"The original batbat"

Location: Milford, Ohio

Well Giza pointed out the con doens't use them. However my worry is that people using these and causing a nuisance to those with licenses in the area could cause the FCC to come in and force a radio check. That would mean every gopher and con staff member having to bring in their radio to a central point and have it inspected. The FCC has the power to do that. Hopefully they would be reasonable and realize it isn't the con's fault. But I wanted people to be aware that the potential for trouble exists. More people are just using cell and text messaging, but these radios are still popular. Long as people stay on FRS channels, which should be enough for covering the con anyway, all should be well.

So yeah, not trying to cause a panic or lobbing accusations, just making people aware Smiling

electropaw's picture
Location: Gulfport, MS

Website: [Link]

Hmm, at this con I never heard this being a big issue with GMRS users outside of AC within the downtown Pittsburgh area. Have you seen something being tipped off about such problems?

And if the commish were to come in and inspect these radios, I doubt that they can hold the con accountable. It's the users that will get their radios taken away. Or just a simple slap on the wrist. No biggie.

Unclekage's picture
Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]

This user is a Board Member. This user is a Staff Member.

This is where I would step in.

"Gentlemen, as you can see, our staff uses exclusively Nextel walkie-talkies. If there are people here who are using GMRS in an improper fashion then I have no knowledge of it, and Anthrocon does not endorse such behavior. You are welcome to conduct your investigation and we will cooperate to the best of our ability, but I will ask that you not interfere with my staff in the course of their duties."

If that doesn't work, I'll sic '2' on them.

charlieg's picture
Location: Alexandria, VA

And if that doesn't work, he'll sic Grandma Kage on them.... Evil

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