Art is not allowed on art panels in the art show?
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Location: Seattle, Washington
Website: [Link]
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That topic may seem a little dramatic, but that is what a snarky, unprofessional, and incredibly rude email from art show director PeterCat to my wife, Wicked Sairah, implies. Sairah emailed the art show director as is suggested on the website, seeking clarification about displaying her shadow boxes in an art panel. Specifically, she was concerned about the meaning of "glass mounting" and whether framed art with a glass front was in fact allowed. From the Anthrocon website: "Three-dimensional works should have a case to hold the items. If you do not have a case, we cannot guarantee the safety of the item." The website specifically asks 3d artists to mount their work in a case to protect it. How confusing. Are shadow boxes allowed, or aren't they? Here is the official response she received: On 4/11/07, Wicked Sairah wrote: Lets ignore the incredibly insensitive suggestion that my wife start throwing her artwork around to determine whether it's good enough for Anthrocon. Does this mean that framed art is not welcomed in your art show? Or simply that artists must not frame with glass, but instead a more expensive lexan or a cheap and shoddy plastic? Or does this mean that any art which could be damaged from a 6 foot drop on to concrete is not allowed? That would exclude nearly the entire art show, given that most art is Fragile. Wooden frames would break with that kind of abuse. Metal frames would bend. Even pieces that are simply matted would suffer noticable damage. Is Anthrocon suggesting that they will not be handling artwork with care? If this were some new kid helping out with the art show, or perhaps a private email, perhaps I could understand. But this is an email from the director of the show himself, from the official Anthrocon art show email address. Never before have my wife and I received such unprofessional treatment from a furry convention. She is considering never sending art to AC ever again. I am convinced that she should not let somebody who has failed in their responsibility affect her business. This response was unhelpful, unprofessional, disrespectful, uncalled for, and simply unacceptable. Please, Anthrocon, tell me that this is not the way the rest of the staff conducts business. Would PeterCat write so condescendingly to some of the more well known artists? Artists are the life-blood of a convention, and they deserve your utmost respect. Without them, yes even the lesser known artists, the joy and meaning of furry conventions would be dramatically reduced. Please assure me that this is a problem that is going to be swiftly resolved. -Blueroo |

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You know, last year I pondered asking the same question, for some of my other work that I placed in the show. I opted for buying a sheet of lexan (even though it cost more than the damned frame) and NOW having read this I'm glad I did.
I hope the AC staff can explain this response to you Blooroo because I am in utter shock.
Location: Ardmore, PA
Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]
The reason why we do not allow glass mountings on pieces is because of breakage problems we have had in years past. And with the concrete floors of Hall C, it makes breakage a certainty if a piece is dropped.
I do not believe that Petercat was suggesting that your wife "throw around" her artwork. I believe he was being a little sarcastic to make his point. (especially given the hour at which the email was sent out)
That being said, was it really necessary to refer to Petercat as "insensitive", "failed in their responsibility", and "disrespectful"? I've worked with Petercat for the last 5 years, and I do not feel that any of these adjectives is an accurate description of him. While his email may have been out of line, I do not believe it justifies a public tongue lashing of him either. Would it not make more sense to take the matter up with the Chairman instead?
Website: [Link]
Though I didn't write this post, my husband did.... I feel that he is within his rights to ask publicly if this is the way an artists question gets answered. My apology if it seems slanderous towards PeterCat. But personally, I don't like being talked to like that. I don't care if it was 2 in the morning, I don't care if he is/was sick, had a bad day, was trying to be funny or sarcastic, you should NOT talk like that to someone. Anyone who has a question! And to be perfectly honest, it didn't answer my question at all. My question was, is glass allowed in the art show? The answer I got was, if it can break from a 6 foot drop on concrete, it's not allowed. Well hell, frames, glass, plaster, some fursuit heads, many wooden, metal, and plastic items and BONES can be broken from a 6 foot drop on concrete. So that didn't answer my question. I could careless if my art is hung up or put on a table, I just wanted to know where I stand with glass in general in the show. I don't want to take the time and put the money into finishing these sculptures, just to mail them out there and find out I can't have them in the show. Once the art is done, getting the glass out can be a pain in the butt.
Once again, I am sorry if PeterCat or anyone else found this post slanderous or rude, but I found that e-mail to be VERY rude and unprofessional for the art show director to be sending out as an answer to a simple question.
Location: Ardmore, PA
Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]
I agree. Some clarification is definitely needed. I've already emailed Petercat and asked him if he could provide that. I believe he works afternoon and evening hours, so we might not hear back from him on this issue until tomorrow (Friday, April 13th).
No slander/libel/etc. was implied by my response to your husband. Your anger is certainly justifiable -- I'd probably be just as upset if our positions were reversed. Like I said, I've known Petercat for 5 years, and this type of response is not the norm for him. In fact, I think it's the first time I've ever seen him write anything like that. I too am curious as to the reasons behind that email he sent.
Website: [Link]
I thank you for looking into this.
What I would like to know is, are shadow boxes with a glass front allowed in the show at all?... (either on a table or hung, though at this point, I KNOW they can not be hung up) and I would like to know WHY I got such a rude reply back to such a simple question. It does make me question if it is even worth it for me to send in art or, when we move to NY next year, attend AC as a dealer.
Once again, thank you for taking the time to look into this. I do appreciate it.
Location: Ardmore, PA
Website: [Link]
Blog: [Link]
Neither of those I know, I'm afraid. (just to clarify my role here, I run Operations, and don't have much to do with the art show)
As I (may have) mentioned, I emailed Petercat, and I also emailed our Chairman (Uncle Kage). Hopefully one of them can follow up with more info. Sorry I can't be of more direct help. :-/
Website: [Link]
Well that's ok, I thank you for all your help so far.
Website: [Link]
Your first paragraph would have been a fine answer to my wife's initial question. It certainly answers the question in a professional manner.
The time of day that he sent his email is irrelevant. His responsibility is to be professional. He failed to do that. His suggestion was insensitive to us. It was highly disrespectful. Sarcasm does not belong in a professional communication.
I also take offense at the implication that I have somehow done something wrong here. The problem here is on *your* end. I was hoping for an apology, and got a thinly-veiled accusation and half-baked defense instead.
I believe that other artists have a right to know how someone who will be accepting responsibility for their art feels about it. Further, why would I *not* make a post about an Anthrocon issue on the official Anthrocon forum?
If Peter does not want us to believe he is insensitive to our requests, then he should probably take the time to make sure he writes in such a manner that his intent is clear. As it is, he did not do that. I know it may be more convenient for the con to have a problem like this hidden away, but I do not believe that is in my best interests as a customer nor do I believe it is in any other customer's best interests. And in the end, artists are your customers.
If you wanted to be equally as professional about it as you ask Petercat to be, then you should have taken the matter up with the chairman directly. But you decided to make a public scene about it.
As for his response, that wasn't sarcastic. Sarcasm is "well if you drop a piece of glass onto a concrete floor from 6 feet up, what do you THINK will happen?". His reponse was not sarcastic, it was direct, giving you a MENTAL IMAGE not a LITERAL OR SARCASTIC SUGGESTION.
This is just a big misunderstanding. "Tone of voice" gets lost on forum boards and in any text-based communications. And I think you need to remember that while you read his response.
And get off your high horse. I don't think anybody could be more grateful than myself for an artist's contribution to Anthrocon or the furry fandom in general, but never presume yourself or your group, or any group to especially have "upmost respect". Artists deserve just as much respect as each and every con-goer, and the staff.
The joy and meaning of the con is in the people that go to it, both the hard working volunteers that run the convention, and the attendees that you meet with, make friends with, and ultimately go to the con to spend time with.
And his response was perfectly helpful (if you bothered to read it instead of taking a personal note of insult about it), unusually direct but not really disrespectful, and all this fuss over it on the public forum is simply unacceptable.
And I think you need to back off with attacking Giza too. "thinly-veiled accusation and half-baked defense"? How DARE you say that about someone who went out of his way to try to help you out even when it wasn't his department. He's trying his best to help you out and try to calm everything down like a good peacekeeper and you dare to start pointing your finger at him? No! Now it is your turn to apologize. Giza is trying to help you and he deserves better for it than what you just said.
I could have phrased this all a lot more diplomatically, but at no point have I ever claimed to be a diplomat.
-There is no truth
Website: [Link]
I'm sorry, who are you?
Right words, wrong person. Giza is over there *point*
-There is no truth
Website: [Link]
That wasn't an apology, but I understand that you're trying to be clever. Ha.
I am not a "professional customer" to Anthrocon. Peter is a professional director representing Anthrocon. I suspect that you are not a member of the staff who is authorized to speak on Anthrocon's behalf, because so far you are doing a miserable job of it and that isn't what I would expect from any group Kage runs.
Being a volunteer to an organization has never given anyone license to be rude, inappropriate, or unprofessional. Dismissing this issue offhand simply because the party in question is a volunteer is, for lack of a better word, bizzare.
I don't need to be forgiven for anything I have said. I just need this seemingly straight-forward customer service issue resolved.
I can not fathom why, other than to prevent embarrassment, anyone would demand that I should have sent my issue directly to the Con Chair. His position is Con Chair, not Customer Service Issue Resolution. And frankly, I don't believe it is appropriate to run to a CEO every time there is a problem. That said, I still have not been contacted offline by any staff. There is still no resolution to my wife's questions, and there has been no apology from Peter for his inappropriate email. Maybe an email to Kage is warranted at this point, because trying to get help on the official AC forum is not turning out to be very productive.
I make no claims to be part of the Anthrocon staff. But you're doing a poor job of trying to defend your side of this issue.
Frankly the issue over glass was about it shattering and causing a hazardous mess. If you break a wooden frame it doesn't nearly cause as much of a problem as shattered glass. That is why other things that break from a 6-foot drop are allowed and glass is not (to answer your question from way earlier).
And I never said him being a volunteer gave him absolution from anything (but I agree with you, saying that would have been quite bizzare). And it is quite clear you didn't really bother reading what I typed, or you did a miserable job of it. But in fact he does volunteer during his free time, and if he doesn't reply swiftly to your demands it might be because he has a full time job, a family, and other obligations. He's not paid to be at your beck and call. You'd do well to remember that.
And I agree with you on another point. If his response was rude in the first place, I'd have been the first person to defend you and say you were in the right. But the point is that you made a public scene instead of contacting him again and trying to work out what was most likely a misunderstanding. He might not have known what he typed could have been taken the wrong way, and you could have talked out your problem in the first place. Everyone (yourself included) would have been a lot happier for it too if you had just taken the time to do that. And that would have been the responsible thing to do.
So as the song says. "C'mon everyone, smile on your brother...", or something close to that.
-There is no truth
Website: [Link]
Frankly, you don't know what the issue is about because you are not staff. You can't tell me whether it's about shattering glass or poop on a stick because you have only assumption. I'm going to have to ask that you please keep those assumptions to yourself.
I am making no demands of Peter, other than an apology. As far as I am concerned, I am finished with him. Where did you get the idea that I wanted him on beck and call? Did you actually read anything I said? (Gee, the shoe is on the other foot now)
If bringing an issue to an official forum is "making a public scene" then by golly I'm going to make a public scene. Now, tomorrow, and the second Tuesday of next week.
If Peter does not understand that what he said was offensive, then he probably should not be in a public facing position. A 5 year old would understand why that email was inappropriate. That he even let such an email be sent is an important statement. Regardless, I am in no way obligated to go back to a man who insults me to try and "work things out". This is someone who wants my wife's business, not a friend. Further, when somebody kicks me, I don't go back to them for another kick. I go to somebody who can do something about it. I know you want to make Peter a victim of my misguided irrational behavior here, but a misguided irrational person I am not and a victim he is not.
I'm not here to make anyone happy. I'm here to get two issues resolved. If you don't like that, you do not have to comment here. In fact, I would prefer if you did not.
And I know what the issue is because, surprise, you made it all public.
And I got the idea that you wanted him on your beck and call from your own comment "and there has been no apology from Peter for his inappropriate email". You're assuming he has the time of day to check and reply to emails on an hourly or daily basis. Many people are so busy they only check their email and other online business once a week. Sometimes longer. So no, the shoe is still on your foot. And you've done a good job of putting it in your mouth as well.
A 5-year old can take offense to anything, it takes an adult to be rational and look at things objectively. And frankly thus far two other people I've consulted on this matter also said the response was rather ambigious, and could have been taken offense to at the will of the reader depending on their mood. And really, as the saying goes, "take offense or don't, the choice is yours". And if you think one "slip-up" of a man is enough of a reason to strip him of his job, I HIGHLY doubt anyone could maintain a job. To err is human, and is done daily, by every person.
You're right, you're under no obligation to do anything. But you wanted resolution, and I suggested a way to get that without making this any more difficult. This and undoubtedly future situations where this will happen again.
However, in your own odd ways, you're both victims.
-There is no truth
Website: [Link]
Done responding to you. You have a smart-ass response to everything, and seem intent on arguing all night long. Don't have time for that kind of internet lameness.
Website: [Link]
Only thing I can say is.. this forum is for questions, concerns, thoughts and so on. This is what it is FOR. Though you and others may not like the way my husband brought up his concern, he is within his rights to post this to the forum. Because, once again, that is what the forum was made for.
This is a concern to us, and possibly to others. That is why it was brought up here. If I felt like getting another confusing and snarky answer, I would have e-mailed him back. But waking up to that was not what I wanted this morning. I wanted a simple "yes, glass can be in the art show IF..." or a "No way, never" Not, "well.. if you take it and drop it from 6 feet..."
Now, maybe his e-mail response was clear to YOU, it was not to me however. I still don't know if glass is even allowed on a TABLE. All I know is (as I said before) if it can break it's not allowed.
I swear in the most helpful "tone of voice" in the world, the response Peter emailed seemed to say "you can request table
space instead". I know that doesn't answer your original question, but it does seem to answer your query about glass being allowed on tables.
I hope that is actually helpful to you. And you were right, your husband has every right to post something on the forum. I misspoke earlier, I just meant to imply that I would have addressed this in other means first rather than taking it to the forums (when Taco Bell makes my order wrong, I ask the manager to correct it, I don't run over to the Fox News station). Perhaps he did, but I didn't notice him saying anything of that.
I hope you get the answer you're looking for in short order. And I do still hope there is a happy ending to all this. Good luck and be well.
-There is no truth
Uh, I'd actually have to stick up for Blue and Sariah. Now I have nothing against anyone at AC! But, the response is unprofessional and clearly not "perfectly helpful". I don't dispute their right to post here on the forums either, however I do agree with Exkhaniber on the point that if you're asking someone to be professional with you, you should respond in the same manner and attacking Giza, who is trying his best to help you, is not the best manner.
But anyway, now that all the points have been made, it's probably best to just wait on a more athoratative response, from Peter or Kage and not do any more flaming--that certainly won't help the issue. My opinion anyway.
Location: So Cal, California, USA
Website: [Link]
I gotta second the second paragraph. Take the higher road, and everything should work out fine in the end. Either way, you'll feel better about it, hopefully at least.
Tiger kitty ready for AC, at your service,
Verdauga
Website: [Link]
Thank you for understanding where we are coming from. The last time my wife needed somebody to explain how gravity works, she was 3 foot tall. To have a 50 year old man directing an art show talk down to her as if she were 5 years old is simply unacceptable.
I honestly do not understand how anyone believes I have attacked Giza. Unless taking offense at somebody's words is an attack these days, I have done no such thing. I do appreciate Giza's help, however I also appreciate that Giza cannot help us as his duties lie elsewhere.
As for not being professional myself, I only ask: When was the last time you met a professional complainer?
Website: [Link]
"As for his response, that wasn't sarcastic. Sarcasm is "well if you drop a piece of glass onto a concrete floor from 6 feet up, what do you THINK will happen?". His reponse was not sarcastic, it was direct, giving you a MENTAL IMAGE not a LITERAL OR SARCASTIC SUGGESTION."
Here is the thing, I am almost 27 years old, I am not a 5 year old. I do not need a mental image to help me understand how gravity works or that glass will break when dropped. Yes, I was insulted by that. Sorry, but when I get talked to like I am a 5 year old, I do not take kindly to it. I'm sure you wouldn't either. What I need here is an actual answer, which I still do not have, even though Giza did his best, which I thank him for. If you can not give me an answer to my question(s), please back off. I am sorry if my husband came off as rude to Giza, it was not right. But you're not helping with this either.
I'm sorry if I haven't been as helpful as I've aimed to be. But I ask, as apparently I am acting as the devil's advocate, that you understand the issue from Peter's side. He doesn't know you, or anything about you. And it just seems to be that he tried to relay to you a very watered down rule-of-thumb that he, in his years of experiance, was certain that everyone could understand.
Yes, maybe it was oversimplified and came across like he was talking down to you like you were a child, but he has to try to make sure everyone understands clearly. I am certain it wasn't anything personal against you, and I know you know that as well. But what he posted was most likely a cut-and-paste answer, or something close that he has to repeat to just about everybody who sends a question.
I'm sure you're a very intelligent woman. I have no doubt in my mind about this. But please just because a man waters down his message for the masses, do not take it personally. This was probably just a big misunderstanding, and I'm sure if you spoke with him directly about it you could get things cleared up.
*I have to note that no I do not speak for Peter, I do not claim to, and I've been specific about the way which I have spoken on the matter ("seems to be...").
And I'm sorry I don't have an answer to your question. I would just like for everyone to try and see this objectively, come at it with refreshed perspective, and work it all out. And I think that process would begin with asking people to again see this objectively, and maybe that email response wasn't what it came off to be. We can work from there, and ultimately towards a resolution.
You don't need to work for Anthrocon to hope for a happy ending.
-There is no truth
Location: Syracuse, NY
Website: [Link]
I apologize to both Wicked Sairah and her husband for the tone I took in my e-mail. Yes, it was late; I work nights, and after getting home I try to catch up on e-mail before going to bed. (It appears most of this message thread took place while I was away earning a living.) I've also been dealing with some personal challenges in the past month that I've tried not to allow to affect the performance of my Art Show responsibilities.
But, as a favorite college professor liked to say after listening to someone's sad tale of why their paper was late, "that's an explanation, not an excuse."
The issue of glass and fragile artwork is addressed several times in the Art Show rules and FAQ:
So after explaining it 3 different ways in the info packet, how could I restate the point that glass or other fragile items cannot be hung on the panels? The intent was to be a bit humorous (forgive me for being a "Daily Show" fan), but I see now how the cold, hard text leached the lightness from my reply.
Blueroo does bring up a good point, that the rules are rather unclear about 3-D artwork. The assumption is that "flat" art (drawings, paintings, etc.) are hung on panels, and 3-D art is displayed on tables, preferably in a case for small (pocketable) items. The situation of 3-D art being displayed on panels is not adequately addressed. I'll make the rules more clear about this.
Again, I'm sorry about any misunderstandings or bad feelings I've caused, and will more carefully consider my comments in the future.
--
For faster answers to any Art Show question, please e-mail <art.2007@anthrocon.org>. I visit the discussion boards here only a couple of times a week.
--
PeterCat
Anthrocon Art Show Director
Website: [Link]
Thank you so very much for this response. This is fantastic and professional. It makes Sarah and I feel a lot better about bringing art to Anthrocon. We fully understand why AC might be jittery about glass framed materials.
I would only add one suggestion. The FAQ for the Art show on the website (that we have been using for reference) doesn't mention your glass frame question! http://www.anthrocon.org/faq/artshow
Website: [Link]
Oh, and two more questions for you.
1. If a shadow box (meant for hanging) has no glass, can it be hung on the art panels?
2. If a shadow box has a glass front, can it sit on a table?
Edit: oops. I'll email this to art.2007@